BASE Community Management & Site Protection

[Zennie 0]

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on an issue I see growing in my area... one that I'm sure is not uncommon to other locales as well.

The problem, in a nutshell, is how are other BASE communities managing the size of their numbers and protecting their sites from being burned?

A couple months ago, you could count the number of active BASE jumpers in my area on one hand. We have one site in particular that is especially precious to us (one that I love to take out of town visitors to).

In the past couple of months I have a couple of personal friends who are also learning. No problem there. And another who is wanting to learn. Don't have a problem with this girl either because she dates and out-of-town BASE buddy.

The problem that I'm seeing is a disturbing number of skydivers who are going out, buying equipment, getting only minimal instruction (if any) and then deciding that they know enough to huck themselves off any object. So they then start trying to go along on BASE expeditions with the regulars to learn where the objects are, and then decide to start jumping it themselves.

We have a couple of jumpers who seem to be displaying this sort of behavior. Unfortunately, they know where this prized site is (because another crew took them out there), and are now wanting to come along on excusions with me and my friends.

I'm very concerned that the Houston BASE community will soon lose this site because:

a. I don't trust their judgment;
b. They don't seem to be concerned with learning anything more about the sport other than how to get onto these objects; and
c. They don't seem to care much about BASE as a sport, it's community or traditions.

If I help them, I'm afraid they'll go off half-cocked on their own and screw up their site. If I don't help them, I'm afraid they'll go off half-cocked on their own and screw up the site.

Beyond this specific problem, how do people deal with a sudden explosion of knowledgable, competent, BASE jumpers in a small area?

Not a pleasant subject, but it's become a very real concern of mine and I'd like to hear other's thoughts on how they would or do handle this sortof thing.

Thanks!

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[nicknitro71 0]

Don't help them, educate them. You were a rookie yorself at some point in time.

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Zennie 0]

True, and I do educate those that want to be educated (with what little knowledge I have). The problem is that there are some who don't seem to feel any need to be educated.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[nicknitro71 0]

Quote

The problem is that there are some who don't seem to feel any need to be educated

Then we will read about those dudes but that won't solve your problem because in that scenario the site will be burnt!

Memento Audere Semper

903

[Zennie 0]

Quote

Then we will read about those dudes but that won't solve your problem because in that scenario the site will be burnt!

Hence my concern.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[brits17 0]

Ted,
Good post. You seem to have hit the nail on the head with the 'situation.' I don't believe there is anybody in the area willing to take on the responsibility for these people... except for one, however he doesn't jump enough for their liking apparently.

Another problem I have, is that I have to see them close to every weekend at the dropzone, we all work there. With the several phone calls I've received this week regarding us taking them to the site so we can show them "the ropes," I'm having a hard time dealing. As of now, I'm dodging the situation, saying I'm really not sure when we're going to jump next, etc... but it would be nice to come to a conclusion.

One conclusion I came up with was to allow them to jump with us, but again, they can't go out on their own and start jumping the site. Sounds political doesn't it? Geez, I just want to wiggle out of this one, but am at a loss. Sorry to enhance confusion with my venting

_______________________
aerialkinetics.com

[base515 0]

We had that same problem here. A pre-dawn attack with bamboo canes solved it.



Ps If you screw 2 inch screws the bamboo at regular intervals, the pole won't break and splinter as quick.

May we live long and die out

[donkeyboy 0]

Zennie,

I don't BASE yet. This is coming from my experience as a paraglider pilot with paragliding sites. In the US we all belong to the USHGA ( United States Hang Gliding Association) .We apply for ratings depending on our hours, experience and a test. P1,P2,P3,P4,P5(beginner,novice,intermediate,advanced,master) . All local clubs manage their own sites and the sites are given ratings for the appropriate skill level needed to fly the site. If it's a P4 site (advanced) it will usually be called P4/P3 sponsored (depending on the difficulty). Meaning that a P3 can fly it under the supervision of a local P4. With some of our P4 sites, after 5 sponsored flights, the P3 is then cleared to fly the site solo.This is how we manage our sites, thought it might help. Mik

[greeny 0]

To those of you how know who you are " thank you for all your help and hospitality."

If your talking about what I think you are, good luck and don't lose it, its too good for that.

[BASE813 0]

Dude this problem is world wide!!

[peterk 0]

I was thinking the easy solution is to tell all the new jumpers that the object doesn't belong to them, and that they need to stop BASE jumping...

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[BASE813 0]

Quote

I was thinking the easy solution is to tell all the new jumpers that the object doesn't belong to them,

See this is my problem. No object belongs to anyone. I hate that idea of "its my object" - what I do like is that a polite attitude is shown to people that jump it more than others. Call the local!

This "ownership" is almost a policing mentallity and this is almost skydiving!

I have recently posted about a problem on a UK object and I am not saying " I own this object and dont jump it without my permission" I am saying "please be aware there are issues and I can help you"

Being too agressive and stating ownership may get some people to say "fuck you"

In general i think most jumpers are very good in their approach - but there are some that also require guidence, and some others that also require something else - but these are few and far between.

[Zennie 0]

If I came across as sounding like I think the object belongs to me, that is most definitely not my feeling on the subject.

This site (yes greeny, it is the one you're thinking of) belongs to everyone. If it gets burned, everyone loses. And there is some history and specifics that I'm leaving out, but this is a very real concern of mine.

I also hope I'm not coming across as elitist or cliquish (a common complaint levelled at us) because I am very open and giving.

There are two issues I'm trying to resolve here.

1. How to deal with people who for a variety of reasons I do not trust to be good stewards of the site.
2. How to manage the growing number of jumpers in our community so that our objects don't become circuses and get burned.

Maybe I'm over-concerned and being slightly arrogant in my lack of confidence that the site will still be properly cared for as more people start jumping it, but it is a concern.

- Z
"Always be yourself... unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

[BASE813 0]

Hey Zennie - I have heard about this site - and to be honest it sounds fuckin PRIME!

fuck man if someone burns it for ya I will pay to come over to the US and help tar and feather just on principle!!!!!!

[peterk 0]

I would really love to hear other people's opinions on this.

What if one of the "new" jumpers (80 BASE, 600 skydives) doesn't get along with the local crew? Is he supposed to just take a deep sigh every time he passes an often jumped A? What if he has made calls and attempted to contact the "locals", with no results? What if he just wants to visit this stuff without them, since that is what he likes about his BASE experience? Is he being reckless if he scopes the object and gathers as much info as possible, and then jumps it invisibly at night when others are jumping it during daylight?

I haven't been skydiving since I started BASE jumping, since I feel like I go back to high school every weekend. Politics drive me crazy. I just want to BASE jump and be happy. I like who I like, and avoid those who I don't like.

To those who have been jumping for a while, and have put the incredible research and dedication to open up new local objects- thank you. If you think that telling people not to BASE jump, to stay away from local objects, etc... will work, remember that you were figuring this stuff out on your own, maybe recently... You don't need to threaten to beat people with bamboo canes because they want to jump local As in the middle of the night. The word that comes to mind is sharing. It seems easier to show BASE jumpers that have paid their dues how to get up there safely and invisibly, reducing the chances of getting caught on the object. Just because someone got into BASE first doesn't mean they get to write the rules...

How would it work if I could prove that the new 2000'A in my town was unknown to most jumpers in the area until I mentioned it? Would it be mine to determine who and how many could jump it, with my permission? (I still have my newspaper article from September)

This problem won't go away, and will become worse in time. Skydiving is growing, and BASE will grow as a result. Skydiving grew by one when I started, and BASE also grew by one when I started. Same with most jumpers here. As far as the hangglider license thing, how about putting jump limits on the local As? Moab style. And then enforcing that number without prejudice... The solution isn't to tell people that they can't do it, but use the respect that those with a lot of jumps have to keep those coming through the ranks well behaved.

The other logical opinion is to limit the number of people that can attend FJCs, and "prohibit" experienced jumpers from showing their friends how to jump... Maybe FJCs that require 500+ skydives, no exceptions. Otherwise, with every BR, CR, Morpheus, and Vertigo FJC class, the problem continues to grow...

Just my opinion...

---------------
Peter
BASE - The Ultimate Victimless Crime

[BASE813 0]

PeterK - you have a REAL point!!!


nice one!

[greeny 0]

>>>>The other logical opinion is to limit the number of people that can attend FJCs, and "prohibit" experienced jumpers from showing their friends how to jump... Maybe FJCs that require 500+ skydives, no exceptions. Otherwise, with every BR, CR, Morpheus, and Vertigo FJC class, the problem continues to grow... <<<<

Most of what you say I agree with but you can not do this:

If you shut the new jumpers out, then some of them will go it alone. If the first jump courses won't take them and the experenced jumpers won't teach them, some will quit, but some will teach themselves.

I am talking from experience, because I did!

When I had 50 skydives I emailed Adam Fillapino (CR) and told him how I had modified my SABRE 150 and was going to try it from a local cliff (380ft). The Email I got back is probably what saved my life. The first line just said "YOU WILL DIE!". If he'd left it at that I'd have f*%$£d him off and jumped any way. It was the 2 pages afterwards telling me exactly why technicaly, that hit home.

With 89 skydives I rang CR up and ordered my MOJO. They asked me a lot of questions about my experience and who was going to teach me. I'll apoligise to every one now for the fact I lied my whole way through that conversation. I had no experience and no one to teach me. What could I do though. Noone would touch me and jumping my sabre wasn't going to work. I did go out and make some more skydives while waiting for delivery, not enouth, but some.

When my rig arrived in the post it was the first BASE rig I'd seen, I ordered the MOJO because the only guy I'd spoken to who jumped, jumped a MOJO.

It came with a packing video and after 5 practice pack jobs I soloed my first jump. A 160ft S/L E into deep water. I still think, all though not ideal this was a good choice for my first jump given the situation. Jumps 2, 3 and 4 weren't so good.

2) 240ft S, tight landing area and active security.
After hesitating on the exit point I rechecked my gear and found my bridle through my leg strap. I then missed the landing area and spent 5 min extracting myself from deep soft mud.

3) 280ft E
On landing I found my chest strap undone. I was more worried about jumping in a gap between walkers, than gear checks. I thought this was very comitting when I rejumped it with 110 jumps.

4) 800ft A
I limped round for 3 days with brusing from my harness after too long a delay, slider off.

From there I went to Norway ( summer of 2001 ). The people who were there will probably remember me going in the water, landing in the trees and bouncing off the rocks. Thank you for every thing you all taught me while I was there. I did 14 more jumps and learned so much.

When I got home I continued to recce my own objects and then go out and solo them.

All I'm trying to say is that you can't and never will shut out the new jumpers, you also can not ignore them. Not all of them will go back to the dropzone. Some will be very lucky, like I was and make through their mistakes. Some will not.

Grab hold of the new guys, educate them, teach them and if nessesery force feed them your ethics, but don't ignore them.

If you do all this for them and still have a problem, I don't know how to solve that. Freedom is what this sport is about (for me anyhow). Even the arseholes who burn our sites, have the right to jump in their own way. I believe our numbers will grow, our sites will get burnt and life will become harder. We will have to deal with more security, climb more fences, aviod more cameras and risk being busted more often. When this happens all the jumpers just out for an easy ride will ground themselves. Only the dedicated jumpers who learn to evolve to the new enviorment will survive. Look at the situation with the NPS, the huge fines and kit confiscation. The objects still get jumped, all be it by a dedicated few.

**I also think attitude to the whole way you do things makes a good / bad BASE jumper not skydive numbers.**

[greeny 0]

>>>>As far as the hangglider license thing, how about putting jump limits on the local As? Moab style. And then enforcing that number without prejudice... <<<<

How are you going to enforce it? Who inforces it in MOAB and how do they justify it? What stops me just ignoring you and jumping anyway? Who are you to say if they can jump or not.

What stops me flying my paraglider anywhere I like, any time I like? Licenced sites or not.

Skydivers imposed alot of the rules on themselves. Don' t do it to BASE.

[BASE813 0]

On returning from my FJC I tried to hook up with people but in general no one really gave me an invite to join them. Instead I bought a sectional map and spent every weekend for 3 months driving around and looking at everything I could over 200ft. I found many sites, but my own thought about BASE at that time was that I did not know who maybe jumping them so I did not want to step on anyones toes so I did not jump them. After several months and speaking to a more experienced jumper, it was apparent that these were not being jumped day in day out by anyone specifically - so I went out and jumped them. I was confident enough to not have anyone more experienced than me on these jumps and knew that I was being a cautious as possible in doing them.

Now 2 years on, if new jumpers are coming through I was trying to make their journey easier than mine by hooking them up with other jumpers and making introductions, but now I think that does not help people. The people I have seen recently now only jump 1 or 2 objects and dont spend bad weather (and good weather) days travelling miles and scoping new objects. The just wait for good weather and jump the objects they have been taken to. This I think does not encourage a good attitude toward objects and the work it takes to open them up.

As far as I am concerned BASE should not be easy for people, it gets rid of the people not committed to doing some work for their objects. By the time I had 15 jumps I had jumped 8 UK objects all of which I found myself and put work into to jump them. I was never shown any of these objects by anyone. This gave me more of an appreciation of the work needed to keep objects jumpable.

So here lies the problem, if you ignore the newbie jumpers then it may encourage them to go out and work for their objects and put off the "lazier" jumpers from jumping. If you help them out then they may become lazy and not go out to work and jump one or two objects and not build on the other skills of BASE in scoping objects. But if you dont help them then thay may blaze your objects anyway and without guidence not build on skills in the correct manner.

Who the fuck knows!

In the UK there are so many new jumpers coming through and I beleive that making it harder for them to get into jumping is the future here. Its not an easy sport and its more satisfying if you work hard to make your jumps rather than being a fucking tourist and being hand fed objects!

Michael

PS) Hey greeny - MarkA was trying to get hold of you - is it ok to pass on your number to him?

[base428 1]

Good Lord.....modifying a Sabre 150 for use off a 380' cliff? It's great that you emailed CR and Adam told you not to jump, but did you ever do any "research" before you contemplated this jump? Maybe your attitude towards our dangerous sport is why you were forced to go solo? No offense dude, but you are lucky to be alive.

You cannot limit the number of jumpers attending FJC's. Gear manufacturers and experienced jumpers are making money from FJC's, so don't expect anything to change.

Jumpers have been talking about site preservation for years. Nobody is going to guard Moab, or your local antenna for that matter, in order to keep inexperienced newbies away. Nothing is going to change in our sport, as far as "illegal" objects are concerned.

I'll offer a bit of advice to anyone upset over the inexperienced, ungrateful, unstealthy a-holes who are ruining your cool local antenna:

a) Have a long talk with them, warn them about items B and C listed below.
b) Kick their ass
c) Tar and feather them (although nobody has had the balls to do this since Garner and Earl)

If you really want to keep your object, then forget the pleasantries and get right to the point. BASE is never going to be easy to get into because we purposely need to filter out the potential victims.

(c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only

[donkeyboy 0]

>>What stops me just ignoring you and jumping anyway ? Who are you to say if they can jump or not .<<

>>What stops me flying my paraglider anywhere I like, any time I like ? Licensed sites or not.<<

Greeny,
You stop yourself from jumping or flying anywhere or anytime you like. You and your respect for the sport and the work that others have put into opening up and preserving the sites that one day you will be able to use . In a self regulated sport you must regulate yourself.

[ZegeunerLeben 0]

>>This is a great post. I know a rookie BASEr who has made every attmept to follow the "call the locals rule", but keeps getting blown off. What is he supposed to do? Think he's gonna just gonna give up BASE? No, now he just scopes out the local objects on his own, which have already been opened up but he just doesn't know it. Will he burn one of these objects? Maybe, maybe not. I think that if the senior guys want to protect their objects, then BASE ethics needs to be taught to every newbie.

[Faber 0]

if evrybody were cool enough to contact locals before jumping sites,this wouldnt be a big issue.

I think we always will have people trying out stuff on their own,to stop it we need to get gear manufactores and jumpers to work along.That way no newbie could get BASE gear whith out getting cleared first.But personaly i dont think it will work in pracsis

Stay safe
Stefan Faber

[base311 0]

There are two issues here: 1) how to handle the transient BASE jumper, and; 2) growing local populations of BASE jumpers.

In re: #1:

There are two important elements to the "call the locals rule": someone has to make the call, and someone has to respond to the call. If either side fails to support the intent of the rule, then there's a breakdown which results in objects being potentially burnt. Plain and simple.

If someone calls you 'cause they're coming to your town, it is important to take the time to find out their experience and be flexible enough to take them to an object that they're capable of handling... or hook them up with someone else in town if you can't take them yourself. Additionally, there are certain elements of courtesy that must be shown if you're the caller: give as much advance notice as possible and be flexible and respectful of what the locals have to say. If you just show up in a town and call the local and wanna jump then and there, it may not be possible to hook you up - understand and accept this, and be respectful of the objects and the locals and don't go it alone; the objects aren't going anywhere and you can come to town again and jump in the future. Similarly, if someone has shown the courtesy to provide ample notice that they're coming to your town and they'd like for you to hook them up, then hook them up! You don't have to necessarily take them to your primo downtown bldg the first time around... and in most cases they'll be happy enough just to have done a jump somewhere with you.

The point here is that it takes both sides working together for this rule to work. To do anything to the contrary fucks it all up, and you risk placing your objects at risk by not responding. It takes willingness, courtesy, respect and understanding from both sides.

In re: #2

The growth of a local population of BASE jumpers will happen. I've noticed that folks come and go - but the population of current jumpers tends to remain roughly the same. Attrition takes care of the numbers: either through injury, job assignments, a healthy scare that puts a jumper off... and a general "wisening" of jumpers (what I call those who have "kicked the habit" - in other words they don't have to bag 30 downtown jumps a month; they're happy with 1 or 2 a week).

Then there always seems to be the resident jumper who is the 'glue' for the group. Usually it's the newbie jumpers with their newbie jumping zeal who haven't kicked the habit yet that provide the motivation to the group, but there's always someone (maybe even a few folks) who keeps the group grounded (not in the literal sense) in reason and ethics. A sort of what-do-you-think guy... someone who can say, "Hold up here fellas - let's think about this,"... someone who can say, "I don't think you ought to cut that lock off - is there another way??" Someone has to teach the ethics, and it's usually the elders of the group who pass along the lore and the reason. It has to be this way. But that requires someone seasoned to be around to do this, and the system breaks down without it (READ: old farts gotta get off the couch and jump every now and then). Hold on while I go look in the mirror.


ok I'm back..
Sometimes a person (and it's usually a newbie) comes along who may want to go it alone on some ojects that they've been shown. Someone who knows enough to be dangerous to themselves and the local objects. An admonishment from the group to this person must be made: "If you go jump objects by yourself and burn them 'cause you were stupid, then we're gonna fuck you up". This generally puts their minds right and they begin to accept that this is the way it is. The group also must stand ready to respond if the person goes against the admonishment. It's like disciplining a child: if the parent isn't prepared to carry out the punishment, then it's pointless to warn the child of the consequences of his actions. Eventually, the renegade newbie becomes a part of the group and the group knows his skills and in time he can, of course, go it alone if that is his desire... and this just happens in time without any clearly-defined moment of realization - it's not like at some point the group just says, "you're cleared to self-jumpmaster" (although we took great pleasure in poking fun at B.G., who remained a student right up through just the other day when we cleared him to self jumpmaster ;)

Jumping with someone else is fun. Generally there are always at least two folks in any given group who might wanna make a jump - go together. The whole group doesn't have to turn out every single time. Yes, there are jumpers out there who never make themselves known because they like to jump alone; these people aren't the problem - they're so stealthy, they're probably stealthier than the group. Don't worry about them 'cause they're not the ones burning your objects.

Jealousy and "object ownership" are insideous things. If you want newcomers to play nice, then you have to be willing to take them places; putting them off (in the social sense) is not going to ultimately benefit your situation. Being pridefull and wanting to covet objects and keep them a secret will result in the objects being burnt by the newbie who comes to the point that he says to himself, "Self: these guys aren't gonna take you to their objects, so you're gonna have to figure it out yourself." To shut out the newbie jumper does a disservice to the local group and to the sport - an opportunity to show someone the 'right way' is missed and the system breaks down. There are always going to be new BASE jumpers - older jumpers must pass along their knowledge for this whole thing to work. Educate them - for they iz ignunt.

Also, making an example of just one person who chooses not to play by the rules goes a long way toward letting others who would follow know that you mean what you say.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Gardner

[bps 0]

Well said Gardner!

Hope to catch you at an exit point sometime...

Bryan