Tracking Suit before Wing Suit?

[jumpinjackflsh 0]

Ok gang, first things first I'll say this. I'm safe, I listen, and I follow prescribed info, from not only the USPA but even more so, those in the know....

I'm working on my goals and objectives for 2013 in the air and i'm looking at getting in at least another 150 skydives as now that my kids are grown and I'm single, no barriers to being at the dz most weekends. That said I'm at 75 jumps now...

I will be at / over 200 before attempting a wing suit, and will of course do a FJC with a qualified mentor / outfit.

That said, tracking dives for some odd reason are amongst my favorites and from the beginning when tracking, I thought of wing suit.

So, after all that background, my question to you all is, should I spend a few hundred on a tracking suit, and have it for awhile prior to moving to a wing suit?

Is there any benefit to that? Of course I'm assuming I'll enjoy given higher performance tracking, etc....

Thanks ahead of time for all your thoughts, much appreciated...

Jack

[mccordia 73]

In general, the best students I get on first flights are not the ones who focussed on solo/tracking jumps. Usually its the ones who had a quite complete background in a discipline such as Formation Skydiving or Freefly. Those students are aware of what their body does in various orientations and relative to other people, and in general they are more safety aware.

Especially in that light, Id dare say that the most dangerous students I see starting out in formation flying are those same 'solo' jumpers. As all they practiced is basically holding one body position, and navigation.
But both not completely the same as wingsuit, and if they teach themselves bad habits, it actually takes them a lot longer to unlearn those.

Basically, all the things aspiring wingsuit pilots are trying to learn themselves, are the same things that any good coach will teach them during their FFC and one or two subsequent jumps.

Performance in flying especially seems to be big on peoples mind, yet thats exactly the one thing any FFC and your first dozen flights are not about. They are about learning to navigate, fly your body in a new piece of gear.

The best preperation in becoming a wingsuit pilot is 'just jump and have fun' and try and actually be good at something involving docks and other people in close proximity in the sky. Jumps that have learning goals in terms of what you're doing.

A very lengthy way of sayig
A trackingsuit will be a fun addition, but with regards to becoming a good wingsuit pilot, that money is better spent on some coached freefly, FS jumps, tunneltime or saving up to that wingsuit you may want to buy once you get to the point of donning wings.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[jumpinjackflsh 0]

Thanks JC,

Appreciate the lengthy reply, definitely what I was looking for. Re relative work and the rest, they are definitely my focus as I move forward to become an accomplished skydiver.

Re solo tracking dives, etc... I certainly will not make that my primary effort. Apologies for giving that impression.

Proper technique, docking, turns, etc... are my number one focus on fun jumps and will be for some time, well, all the time, lol.

However, I was just curious, if the tracking suit, would add to my abilities regarding future wingsuit flight.

Re coached freefly, fs, etc.... I'm totally on board. I got some tunnel time years ago at Perris with Patrick (may he rest in peace) and it actually did a world of wonder for my control, etc... Even though I had only 30 jumps when showing up there.

Thanks again for your response,


Jack

[fasted3 0]

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However, I was just curious, if the tracking suit, would add to my abilities regarding future wingsuit flight.

I got a tracking suit before I had enough jumps to WS, and personally think it did make it a bit easier for my FFC, but the main reason I'm glad I got it is that it made tracking more fun. Sure, there are better ways to spend your money, but if you can afford it I'd say go for it.

But what do I know?

[mondo77 0]

Similar to fasted3, I too got a tracking suit before my FFC. I had probably 25-30 jumps on it before doing my first wingsuit jump. After doing my first jump, the video from my coach was watched by the both of us and one main thing was recognized; my arms were much further back than they needed to be. As it turns out after talking to the wingsuit coaches and instructors at my DZ, that is a common problem for people who have a main emphasis on tracking. It seems that people who focus too much on one discipline each have their own unique "fault" during a first flight. Trackers have their arms swept too far back behind them, like myself, because they are apparently used to a certain amount of pressure on their arms, and are not used to the extra pressure caused by a wingsuit. Belly flyers commonly arch too much, causing too much downward speed instead of horizontal, and freeflyers are just "generally not so good". However, those with a well rounded history do fairly well.

This being said, would I change what I had done? No. My PF gen 2 suit is an amazing piece of equipment that I love and cherish dearly, seeing as how it recently won me a 1/2 off PF wingsuit prize during a competition. It will allow you to push your tracking to a new level, but seek out and learn basic skills first before throwing it on. Even now I still seek tracking coaching because I know I am nowhere near where I could be at my best.

Overall, I'd say if you have the funds get the tracking suit, but don't focus solely on that. It is a nice toy to play with, and you will always come back to it at some point, I know I do.

[davelepka 4]

Ditch the tracking suit idea. Unless there are a flock of them at your DZ, you're setting yourself up for a buck of solos, and we all know how much you learn on a solo.

(OK, you can learn on a solo, but sooner or later you run out of 'learning' as you have no frame or reference, and you need another jumper to get yourself back up on the learning curve).

In terms of the next 150 jumps, forget about wingsuits for the time being. Just jump and have fun, and learn as much as you can. You can't swoop or wingsuit just yet, but you can do RW, freefly, tracking dives, and CRW, so spend some time learning a little about those things. If you did 25 jumps in each of those disciplines, you would learn a little about them and a lot about skydiving.

Tracking dives are a good 'tool' to learn some wingsutiing skills, but you really need to be on a 'group' jump where you are not the focus. A solo will onyl get you so far. A 2-way with an experienced jumper will only get you so far if they 'help' you stay relative. A group jump where the base isn't paying attention to you is where you will really learn 'right from wrong'.

Of course, you need a good 'base' of skills to be able to safely get on a group tracking dive, but once you're there, take advatage of every opportunity you can to get on those jumps. Find out who organizes and leads tracking dives at your DZ, and let them know that you want to be included any time they're putting one together. It's not going to be 5 times a day, but maybe they'll do one at the end of every (or most) days, and you can get on those.

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

+1 @ Dave and Jarno

[jumpinjackflsh 0]

+1, agreed....

The main thing I was looking for was whether or not it would be advantageous and aka, worth it.

Thanks for the feedback, essentially, and I'm not surprised I need to hit relative work and all my basic skills evenly as opposed to getting hyper-focussed on one area....

Highly appreciated

[LiborJanicek 0]

This is just my story and the path I've taken in skydiving.

I started jumping in Feb 2005 and left the sport in 9/1999 with 115 jumps. April 2012 I got current with the desire to fly wingsuits. Since getting current majority of my jumps have been tracking jumps with a little bit of freeflying mixed in. I did 4 pre-wingsuit jumps with West Coast Wingsuits. Aug 2012 I received my tracking suit from Intrudair. Currently I have 13 jumps on my tracking suit and that's pretty much all I fly.

Yes I feel it's very important to have good all around skills but to me the body positioning is totally different from RW or freeflying. My biggest problem when I did my coach jumps with West Coast Wingsuits was that I wasn't able to full de-arch and have a straight body positioning. Another major thing to me was the planning and executing the correct flight path. At my home DZ's trackers get out first and it's up to me not to fly into other jumpers. Every tracking suit exit I simulate a wingsuit style exit, as quickly as I can I navigate to my fly path and fly. During flight I play with the pitch angle of my arms as well as turning my using my shoulders. When it comes time to deploy, I reach back with both arms and bend my legs to simulate a wingsuit style deployment.

I love flying my tracking suit feel it's helping with body positioning for wingsuits flying. I'd say for sure get a tracking suit. To me tracking suit is a wingsuit with out wings and they increased the glide ratio with the latest tracking suits.

So ya get a tracking suit and come fly with me in SoCal.

Please be nice Dave.

[kallend 1,623]

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I started jumping in Feb 2005 and left the sport in 9/1999 with 115 jumps.

Time machine?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[WickedWingsuits 0]

There are many paths to the same destination.

I tend to agree that more all around exposure is a better, but also I have seen some jumpers with 1000's of belly jumps be out flown by someone on jump 210. At Wingsuit jump 100 they will probably both be in a similar place

I don't think this is a topic where everyone will agree but the rainbow is full of color.

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[mccordia 73]

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I have seen some jumpers with 1000's of belly jumps be out flown by someone on jump 210.

Though that sounds great, performance isnt the goal on the first jumps.
Nothing illustrates this better than the fact that a person at that exact same jump 210 killed himself and injured another wingsuit pilot hard, slamming into a flock out of control only a week or two ago.
Being 'outflown' can also mean 'slam harder into someone' when it comes to flying with other people. Dont sugercoat it.

I dont think there is an actual rainbow of color when it comes to experience needed before getting into wingsuit flying. The more experience flying with others, the better. Sadly we're seeing more and more examples of people with low experience ending up flying into other people and doing things they shouldnt be doing. Id be quite happy if I saw everyone teaching focus on slow progression, both before and after starting to fly a wingsuit, through all the mandatory steps needed to become a good wingsuit pilot.

Ive seen experienced skydivers with 1000+ jumps do things in flocks at 15 to 20 jumps in a wingsuit, that show more knowledge and understanding of flying a body, than the skills of beginner who are merely able to stretch their legs will ever be able to show. Sure a beginner with 200ish jumps may easily tap 2 o 3 minutes of freefall in the right (or wrong) wingsuit. But that beginner will not have the same understanding on the dynamics of formation flying. Especially when the focus on these mere 200 jumps has been on solos and tracking body position.

JC
FlyLikeBrick
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