fedykin

lol, Martin Reynolds would be the guy to chat to about that....

Hey guys, from someone who's experienced first hand the cult like sillyness of the atmo crew a word of advice 1- Its almost a religion, arguing on a fact and scientific basis doesnt really have any effect upon them 2- It just gives them a forum to talk more pseudo scientific overly passionate dribble If you don't like the agenda, just ignore them. Its like celebrities or fashionable causes. If you dont talk about them and allow them to dominate the agenda then they disappear. Talking about them makes them seem of real significance. Just ignore them, they're comfortably confined to obscurity in a small corner of the world... Not too dissimilar to discussing Sarah Pallin or Scientology. The crazy followers don't really want to debate or listen to what you say.

No comment! Surprised the atmo mafia thought police havent stepped in.... Relative rotation gravitational wind or something like that, crazyness!

By many accounts he's been coaching there for the past couple of months... None withstanding... your avoiding the question, do you think its appropriate for him to be coaching at that level? As you obviously believe he'll learn very quickly(or has) then given he's been there for a couple months, he obviously started coaching there at an even lower level than this. Two bits of advice 1) Actually awnser the questions 2) Dont get into a slagging match with me

Point by point 1) Olav isnt a certified IBA coach or instructor. Not to put that as a the holy grail(Bottrop and Bedford seem to get by just fine without it). But it is pretty generally accepted that it a solid system that produces highly skilled spotters and coaches. Ive had a fair bit of contact with him and Tiezzi(if this is what your refering to). In the formers case, I entered into a debate on physics which saw the Atmo crew shift away from a technical debate, to a religious one. In terms of Olav, yeah I've defiantly been critical. So be it, he's certainly given all of us more than enough ammunition. In taking the piss out of an unqualified and underskilled coach I make no apologies. In no way am I 'big ing myself up'. Ill ask you this, do you honestly think that it appropriate for someone at that level to be coaching?

if you knew me, you'd know that aint the case!

Well.... IMO There really should be a pretty solid base of skill before someone starts coaching, thats not to say good flyers make good coaches, which as we all know, isn't always the case... I feel that on the whole tunnel rats are those best suited to do this, given they are the ones with the greatest experience and exposure to tunnel skills Obviously he's done a freefly jump or two, but as we've seen, his judgement and skills when it comes to the tunnel is more than a little bit flawed(ie.... dismissing tunnel instructors advice and IBA regulation and breaking both of his arms). Olav clearly doesn't have a solid developed tunnel skill set and thus shouldn't be coaching... Going back to the initial point, i think it is really funny to watch!

yes, the rats there have confirmed it.... + the big 'first school' jumpsuit is a bit of a give away + pics of him wearing that suit too

Sorry dave but i think your mistaken. He is coaching and now is making a regular thing of it.... see http://www.freeflyschool.com/Olav_Zipser/Willkommen.html ----------------------- Learn to Fly with the Inventor and the Father of FreeFly . Olav Zipser I‘m inviting you to learn all about the FreeFly philosophy and techniques. Manage to harmonize you‘re physical action thru mental meditation . I will create a personal training program and film you life from the inside of the tunnel with a dynamic in flight head mounted and a stationary camera . Technical Briefings before and after the FreeFly Sessions are included. You‘re FreeFly Progression Video can be published on Youtube and /or Facebook. TUNNEL TIMES IN 2010 THIS TIMES ARE GUARANTEED for all bookings and arranging other times CONTACT : [email protected] Blocks 15 min. Tunnel time +coaching +video = 230.-€ 10 min. Tunnel time +coaching +video = 160.-€ every Friday ,Saturday ,Sunday march 13- may 2 every day 2x 15 min + 1x 10 min blocks book all day 40 min = 600.-€ ------------------------- Lets separate the two issues. 1) The morality and integrity involved with someone flying like this coaching others, IMO, is pretty weak 2) The Inventor of freefly etc.... Good marketing and self promotion at best.

nope, im taking the piss out of someone who's coaching others when they fly like that.... especially when tunnel rats take years and years to hone their skills and really understand how to fly in the tunnel, some people feel they can rock up and start coaching

but you forgot one fine point.... im not coaching others in the tunnel(which he is) and to be frank i'm a bit further on that what i've seen on that vid and lets not push the whole 'pioneered' line either, we all know thats pretty paper thin. and ask some of the guys in flyaway about who the first person the fly head down was...

Check this out, is this just me or is this like a Commodore 64 style technique in the age of the MacBook pro.... Awesome!!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w5D6vC6Nf0

ive used ultimate ears for ages, a bit of a tight fit with a full face, but still brilliant sound quality. my judgement is fairly poor so im splashing out for custom monitors, no way they can slip out + studio level sound. check em out... http://www.ultimateears.com/_ultimateears/store/custom/ue4pro.php

Watch out guys, the AtmoCult has been at it on wikipedia again. PseudoScience at its best!

Heya, I started to learn to fly head down via 'tracking into headdown' and then went with a US coach(Alaska Jon) who went the other way(purely head down from exit). Each has thier merits, the tracking one being that you have the potential to be exposed to some really exciting aspects of freefly such as full angle flight(tracking, tracing/atmo, head down then back over to tracking the other direction). It just really depends on how you implement the training. I have observed a number of cases whereby some flyers who only do tracking, atmo, tracing then try to head down afterwards after quiet a great deal of time just hitting angles they have real issues in terms of knowing when thier vertical and just general posture etc... As long as you dont go over the top and do a year of just angles then try to learn headdown, you more than likely wont have an issue. Its a fairly contingency based. If you have significant funds, then the tunnel is a great way to learn HD. If not sky coaching focusing on just HD in my mind is a close no.2. Ive seen people with good HD skills pick up angles in 1 or 2 jumps but vice versa(angled types with little or no vert experience) find it in relative terms more difficult to transition their skills set to vertical. My experiences anyways...

grrrrrrr!

The web site and the format they use is curious at best.... Quiet a few listings proclaiming 'New World Record' or 'First Time Ever'. Basically if they do a jump and happen to be in a particular formation(someone coliding with them) the claim that it was intentional and proclaim it a new world record. Its always unreal how Tiezzi encourages people to collide with formations. The helmets are pretty confortable though....

DAMM! Only just saw this whole post. Stired up a hornets nest on the freefly forum with the 'Holy Church of Atmonuati' awhile back. Those nutters apparently got so 'deeply insulted' by the wikipedia entries they've written to wiki and had any entries locked on the subject. Halarious! Not too far off of the behavior exibited by the church of Scientology whenever anyone says a bad world about Elron Hubbert. Here's a good add. Atmonauti- Its not just about flying. Its about having a full frontal labotomy and being forced to stand in pews worshiping and giving money to Tiezzi. Thankfully that kind of behavior is limited to Italy and now South Africa.

hmmmm i had the rush order +100USD + a couple options(no designs, fairly basic) added all up i think was 700 USD about the same as a boogieman + obviously much better! when you get a custom design i believe it adds up fairly quickly worth it though!

Interesting story! Ordered a ouragan tunnel/sky suit, they quoted 2 weeks for a rush order and it took 1 week to get the suit, incredible! When i recieved it there was a minor issue(i didnt want cordura on the knee's)and i sent a quick email to chunter about it. Within 20 minutes they called me on the phone and told me that they were sending a brand new corrected suit asap. It was sent to my girlfriends house, and not taking into account shipping, it took them 3 days. Ive got to say one of the things that really irritates me about the skydiving industry is the streak of sheer amaeturism. Most companies are incredibly vauge about delivery times and usually fail to ever meet these. Add to this extreemly poor customer service and high unit costs(even worse in the UK than anywhere else!). The only 2 companies that i have come across that have really impressed me are Mirage and now Ouragan. Im very impressed! Highly recomend them, fly beautifully, unbelievable comfortable, just perfect!

By far the best suits i have come across, the customer service surpasses anything i have experienced. The amount of drag is perfect! Get one! 1 week delivery time!

My experience-- Matter- bad customer service, okay(ish) quality Michigan Suits- great customer service, cheap, last for ages....! mine is finally being retired having done over 2500 jumps and 20 hours in the tunnel Ouragan- just ordered one, will be here in the next 2 days. rush order in 2 weeks, insanely fast. very friendly + professional on the phone. can't wait to see!

Come again....?

Right.... Im not too sure how to awnser this mate, mmmmm. If you've had lots of fun and a great time from Tiezzi than thats great, if you dont enjoy what your doing then whats the point eh? I would make the point that i don't think its the best idea safety wise for a post AFF student to come on big ways, but thats the call of the LO on the day, as long as no-one gets hurt and everyone learns a bit, then great. Its not a practice i advocate but again, thats Marco's call. If Atmo has become as quasi religion to you, then great. Thief? Im not too sure how to respond to that! This stuff is all in the public domain and i feel that by circulating an open debate and the technical intricacies is postive for all parties. It keeps aspects of the sport from becoming a 'black art', just like how freeflying used to be, not many really understood what was going on, so de-engineering problems with jumps wasnt possible. This trial and error methodology just slows everyone down massively. i think the most important note i can put is this. it does seem interesting to me that the model that Tiezzi uses is technically incorrect. It is interesting that the person who claims ownership and the discovery of this endeavor has some very big holes in a complete theory of angled flight. It is also very interesting that random individuals like myself and andy newell and marc arnold etc... all appear to have a better grasp of the physics involved than the supposed inventor. I guess to some people this could seem like an argument of science vs religion. I think that both can exist side by side in a complementary fashion. Im arguing pure science and in that sense, there are a few people out there that have a patchy understanding of what they claim to teach. Ive never claimed to know everything and the limits of human understanding. If you and Marco have an issue with Babylon then take it up with them. If you'd like to know why I left the ATP club then PM me. I think ive been pretty restrained in not circulating some of the problems i had with some personalities. To be honest the main reason why i havent done so i because i really like the owner and pilot of Skydive Marche, Illario-he really is a nice, funny guy(apart from the fact that he eats potatoe chips with Brunello). If other people voted with thier feet and quit ATP then thats their perrogative, though i don't believe that I signed any argeement to give away my critical independent mindset. You seriously need to relax!

hey Poul i think the debate is over not only the possiblity, but also what is the primary driver. i am arguing that it is angular deflection, with lift being a minor feature. others being lift exclusively. to say that just because someone goes forward, then by definition that in itself is proof of lift is a bit of a jump of logic, based upon what i feel is an incorrect premise. is forward movement proof itself of lift, or evidence of something else at play? id argue that the dynamic at play has half a dozen variables at work such as a pitched angle to change the center of gravity that in turn allows us to deflect the relative wind in such manner to move along an axis. lift probably does have a very minor role due to the irregular profile+numerous drag anchors. If lift is the overiding factor then i would expect fall rates to be much lower, but we are talking about a minor feature. Good trackers are getting 90 miles an hour off of thier protracks vs. 120 flat. Take into account how much more surface area is being employed and the variables start to shake out a bit. Movement typically results in more drag due to a larger steering surface being employed. Check out people carving in the tunnel and the slower airspeeds used.