Trae

Hey there Giselle,

in reply to "You lost me with "blown from head to the ankles." ...................................... If it was secured at the ankles and then blown in a vertical tunnel wouldn't it just blow over,? leaving it flying backwards. You've got me thinking if it could even fly like that so thank you.

there's always a chance , the accessible university tunnels are too small to test anything but a model and that's already tested . (I've tested the full size version but only on fixed on top of a speeding vehichle) The most accessible tunnel is a vertical one and I want to be fully prepared if I make an approach to them. All I've heard so far in the real world is ......NO ! Good feedback here though

in reply to "Heck, in my few years of following BASE, (5 years seriously following it) the mentality has done a 180. From "lets see how far away from the ledge we can get" to "i wanna see how close i can get". The "norm" has changed, and not for the safer. " .......................... Flying stupidly close to things is NOT a new invention. More than 5 years ago people were flying VERY close to rocks in wingsuits and tracking pants. Thing is most of them are dead and gone , but the rocks ??? they're still there.

shhhh ..... the internal mechanism fits in an ordinary wingsuit....

in reply to "secure it to the door and ankles." ........................................... Do the safety people have to keep it aligned when done like this ? or do they just help stop it blowing up and over. If it was secured at the ankles and blown from the head to the ankles, wouldn't that tend to blow the suit head over heels into backwards flying ? It would be possible to secure the suit by the shoulders . Do you think that would be better than the ankles ? as then it could rotate about the shoulders rather than the ankles.

Thanks for the pointers. A REALLY windy slope and it would kite I reckon. Cheers

in reply to "Passion is passion, and it saddens me to think all most see is someone who was injured exploring what drives them to live. Heal fast, Jeb. " ................................. Yep WOW, praps next time wear some body armour man.

in reply to "I would like to believe that Aerodyne put sufficient jumps on test canopies to confirm the suitability of the material (along with testing that the material mfg would have done)." ..................................... A wise old skydiver once said to me, "If you're an early adopter in this sport, you're a test pilot." Haven't proved him wrong yet.

Biggest person I've taken for a ride (130kg + he lied about being 110kg ) passed out while still just out the door in a 182, couldn't get him back in and had trouble getting him out. One of his legs had fallen in front of the step. Getting that leg behind the step was a major effort. The pilot even tried to help get us back in but no chance. He was unconscious till we landed . Never again , I learnt my lesson get the fat guy out BEFORE his GF , once she's gone there's no-one left to impress .....

yep , sticks and stones just bounce off

I've had a female passenger try and climb all over me after a jump does that count?

in reply to "I fear heights." .................................. You can think of it more like a distance, you don't fear distances do you? Imagine you are in a car going 120mph down a straight empty road. (have you done this its fun too ) When you are a mile away from the end of the road you hit the best brakes in the business. You stop within several seconds, still nearly a mile away from the end. If your first set of brakes brakes fail, you have an even better set as back up. Not many cars give you that kind of stopping power.

Heres another way to describe the movement. You're gunna have to use your imagination and suspend your disbelief plus it helps if you are standing up. Imagine you are in the front shield line of a gallic/celtic battle line You're in a shoving match with a Roman legion, .(you can be a Roman if you have to ) battle line to battle line, shield to shield. You have to lean into it., stop them from pushing you over , hold them back......THEN as one , you let them start to push you back but only the top of your body, your feet stay firmly planted, your arms , squeezed up against your chest your fists bunched under your chin, the rest of your body tenses and keeps taking the load, THEN suddenly ! you push down under their shields keeping your arms in close, you let their force push itself over the top of you , as you push under them toppling them enmass,..... then the second line cleans the ones that fell, back up with your shield .... huh what's this I'm in freefall better open me wings.......

in reply to "So de-arching on exit will make you go up faster. Up is where the skull is. " ...................... Can't disagree with that. My emphasis wasn't on arching OR dearching but flying your body with the wings closed . Imho the wings being open on exit , trumps most body positions. I agree that it is probably a very good idea to put some arch in especially when starting out. keep yourself as stable as poss. but not to sacrifice safety for stability, or rapid transiton to wing open flight. My exit priority has been to miss the tailplane and now over time, stability issues have naturally been minimised. I'm just happy on my exits to feel that the closest I come to the tailplane is standing in the door...but then of course I could be wrong edited to ps. have you noticed how many WS exits barrel out towards the tailplane??? ie from the front of the door out past the back of the door? I've been working on making my exits move forwards and down, and that means moving forwards in the door, in the plane, legs collapsing under me as I project myself just past the bottom front corner. ie from the rear of the door but mid height , to the front of the door aiming low, just outside the bottom of the front of the door.(easier to do than say ) That helps get you in a position close to that diving wooden feller, almost before you fully leave the plane.

Sure does. I was thinking soemthing like a bungee tripod, with bungee/rope limiters. nice and cheap. Start off standing gradually up the speed until tail lifts off and take it from there until fully flying in the relative wind, within the limits of the ropes /bungee. But yes a horizontal tunnel may start being more cost effective the more gadgets required for the vertical tunnel. Skydiving it is poss with the smaller wings but who's gunna let me take this out of a plane until its proven???

in reply to "What's wrong with that, is that in a wingsuit you do not always go where you look" ............................ Is it faster to arch or dive? ie do we cut through the air better in a arch or in a dive?

in reply to ""Projecting" yourself out the door is a really bad idea man, seriously." .......................................... I think you're getting a bit caught up on my choice of words. and missing what I see as a simple thing not that different from what you're saying just minus the emphasis on the arch. Imagine this just for a moment You're standing in the door crunched up ready to exit, you look where you want to go, then go there. That's what I'm calling projecting . I just don't see what's wrong with that.

in reply to "There are so many things wrong with your description from a kinematics standpoint. " ...................................... This is a good thing talking about this yeah ? OK you don't like where I look when I exit? Its easy to pick my words apart with your disingenuous assumptions. I don't jump up out the door . I fly my body where I want it to go. Why so many tailstrikes .??? I'm guessing its not from looking forwards and downwards, but very well may be from arching head up out the door. Why don't you give us a step by step break down of the way YOU exit, in YOUR words. edited cause mumma taught me not to think being rude is funny

in reply to "Arch And Scrunch. Anything else and you're begging for a quick death. Teaching anything else is how we get Miami Tailstrike. The LAST thing you want to do is encourage a technique that creates ideal conditions for maximum possible exploitation of available lift in the moment of exit! .................................. Since I've been outed as a potential murderer I'd like to share some experiences that have made me exit the way I do. I was taught to arch out the door. Sure keep the wings closed, but ARCH. Then I nearly hit the tailplane ...(on a low P GTi.) On the ground the pilot nearly hit me. Feeuke.. he was such a nice guy, but he went purple with rage...might 've had something to do with him not wearing a parachute. So I changed my exit method and starting sitting in the door, figuring I was already halfway away from the tailplane. then an armwing cutaway handle got caught by its velcro and left in the door . Time for more thought. NOW, I project myself as far as possible forwards and downwards away from the tail plane. Phuck the getting stable and flying quickly bit . I drop like a rock out the door, and don't generate anywhere near the lift the archin bit did for me. yes I'm a lightweight and yes the plane was going a bit fast , but it would've been my fault if I had taken that aircraft out. The guy that initially taught me wouldn't've got the blame. I'm thinking the getting flying quickly bit is what's generating the majority of tail strikes

in reply to "I don't want to be a dick here but this will get people killed. I always teach new birds to look at the prop. It causes an arch directly into relative wind ensuring most stable exit. And it ensures their initial fallrate ramps up as fast as possible" .............................. You're not a dick Lurch , you're a good bloke. I've been watching newbie WSers arch out the door like they've been taught (not by me ) , with their wings open like PROPER dicks. I said forward AND down. and my emphasis when I teach people is on keeping your wings closed, Stability ? what good is that if you hit the tail plane perfectly stable in a head up arch? here's a piccy of where I look , is that the prop

in reply to "Looking up on exit will create a natural arch which will allow for a cleaner exit. Looking down presents the opportunity to end up head low on exit which can disorientate newer jumpers - especially when jumping in groups. Also, if you look up, you'll be able to see the tail as it goes by... " ................................... Well I have to disagree with that. We tend to go were we look. Looking up and arching increases the chance of planing UP into the tail plane. people trying to arch a Ws out the door ...imho counterproductive to missing the tailplane. Disorientation? people wingsuiting should already be competent, well rounded skydivers and not so easily disorientated on exit. End up head low ?, YES the objective is to miss the tail plane. If you are looking down and forward you can see the tail plane AFTER you have missed it. in reply to "Additionally, exiting with hands covering your handles is a bad idea. Although unlikely, it poses a risk of one of those handles being used when it shouldn't be. " Not covering them poses more of a risk . I could more accurately have said protecting your handles rather than covering them . Of course it's bad idea to inadvertantly operate your handles , once again a competent skydiver will have no problem with this. If a newbie WSer is an incompetent skydiver they have no business flying a WS. in reply to "Better to either have you hands higher up on your chest, or exit with them at waist height, then you can progressively open your wings. " I'm not talking about opening your wings , I'm talking about keeping them closed. but imho your permutations re hand positioning have some merit.

Thanks for the replies. I've been testing it on top of two different vehicles. and have reached a limit with what I can learn there . Time in a horizontal research tunnel is expensive. in reply to "As far as securing it to the floor, even if that could be done, how would that even be useful in learning to operate the wingsuit? You need to be able to react to the wind and see how the wing responds. " If it was secured in front of the WS's CG and CL (say at the shoulders) then it would end up head down in the tunnel but head on to the relative wind. In this position I'm hoping it will give me an idea how it flies in a relatively safe environment. other option at the moment is to skydive a mini wing version to minimise potential dramas Thanks for your thoughts.

Hi there, Do you think it is possible to test a wingsuit design in a vertical tunnel ? I'm thinking it would have to be secured to the floor somehow . What other obstacles would have to be overcome? The wingsuit design is semi-rigid with retractable wings. Any input appreciated.

inreply to "Protect our discipline; train, brief, and work with the idiots. " ................................................ OK, Exit priority for a wingsuiter. Miss the tail plane. Remember, if you have a short attention span, its more important to exit safely than to exit quickly. Quick will happen naturally , as you get experience. At the door (side door exit ) *FACE the direction you want to go (recommended looking forward and down) *KNEES together, (this closes your leg wings, practise waddling like a duck with your knees together ) *ELBOWS against your rib-cage,( this closes your arm wings) *HANDS/FISTS covering your EP handles, close to your chest. (In this position your can use your strength to keep your arm wings closed as you hit the prop blast.) *CHIN tucked in a bit . (This will give your head just that little bit extra space as you go under the tailplane and help prevent you from planing up straight out the door.) STAY LOW in the door and out you go , like a baby seal, looking down and forward all flippers and no wings. Its more like a head down freefly exit than a poised student exit When you see the tail plane go over your head . Hey, congratulations ! you missed it. No doubt there are untold permutations on this , work your own out if you don't like this one, just remember exit priority is ????? If you're an idiot, consider yourself told.