tantalum

Trent: in my books, no politics whatsoever justifies the taking of human life! Any politcs/ideology to the contrary is out-of-line. Even if it is US American...for America has absolutely, positively no moral prerogative. These days, I'd like to think that the EU (and Russia; no kidding), are our best hope for moral guidance ahead. With its endorsement of torture, the US is no longer a member of civilized natiions. This just gets my goat a little so I have to digress... How do you determine that a nation has asked to be liberated? Do you listen to the minority of people who are oppressed, or should it take a majority ignoring the "little people"? Or should we only accept a vote asking for help, which would surely work in brutal dictatorships, right? Does the UN have a "Free Us" hotline that people can call? I've asked this before here and no one had a good answer. I think people just like to throw out the "they didn't ask to be liberated" thing because it makes their anti-war stance sound better. Keep in mind, there are people in Iraq and Iraqis in diaspora that did ask for Iraq to be rid of Saddam.

There is news circulating in international media that the US Army mistakingly bombed the wrong house, some place in Northern Iraq. While the US Army claims that only five ppl were killed by "mistake", other reports put the civilian death toll as high as 14. Anybody else see anything wrong with this picture whether it is 5 or 14? Suffice it to say that the five or 14 will, in all likelihood, be revenged by ten-times their number. The US, unfortunately, is seeding hatred at an amazing and most efficient pace.

Democracy is not the ONLY answer! It might serve the US, Canada, the EU, and some parts of Asia. But saying that it is the "right-all" for everyone, is just like saying that Christianity is the only religion. Or, much simpler (for those mentally-challenged), that English is the only language.

Chasing: all good and rational points. I certainly don't condene the IP infringements! (However, how stupid does one have to be to realize that there are no snow-capped mountains or red-clay deserts in Georgia). And NO, I am not ok with the stolen IP and think that Ben and Quary (sp) are now certainly in a position to pay up, that is to pay royalties. (Before ordering the next fancy car.) I really don't want to comment on the bait/switch but understand the benefits to up-jumpers. Realistically, it makes all the difference for having an all-A/C, carpeted environment versus packing in an airplane hangar.

So, if United Airlines or Continental undercut (or do a better job at marketing) my home-town airline Delta, you'll be outraged and prepare for legal action? Realistically, it's called competition. It's the American way. To give you an outright answer to your question: YES, it's ok. The Americans call it CAPITALISM. (You don't like it: get out of Iraq.)

SpeedR: I truely appreciate and recognize your rational response in this overcharged forum. And no: I am not Iraqi either, but I can, through personal background and experience, relate a lot more. W/o going into further details or arguing: democracy is not the only option, christianity isn't. As long as we try to impose our society/culture on others (who have been in existence for, at least, 1,800 more yrs than the US), we will, sadly, always loose. Maybe there is something we can learn from Iraq instead....? um I'm not an Iraqi. And, I assume you are Iraqi, where do you get your source for the 90%.? because your ideas do not correspond with most blogs I have read. But if you believe that blogsare BS., fine, but post evidence. By the way, ARE you an Iraqi? I really want to know what's going on there. Not just propaganda from either the left or the right of the war. But that's probably wishful thinking.

This whole threat (all 700+ contributions to it) begins to border on the ridiculous: What can we do about Skyride? May be just set up a better (and more competitive) shop than they have? Rather than trying to enrich lawyers (though that seems to be the American way nouveau. Sadly!) I have been involved on- and off (but never FT) with ASC and their outlying operations, both as a skydiver and staff member. I have always been treated with professionalism and courtesy. Arguably, they have the BEST and best-MAINTAINED (through Chutingstar) student and tandem equipment in the state of Georgia. (And yes, there is equipment in circulation at other dz's that I refuse to jump.) Also, ASC is the only true 7-day operation in GA (and for about 7 h driving distance out); I really appreciate that option. Anyway, if Ben (who I know) and Quary (who I don't) make a few bucks by providing a service with a sophistication, that nobody else provides...so be it. Let it be noted that 40+ tandem rigs (Strong and Sigma), 80+ student rigs (Mirage) do not come cheap either. Not too mention a fully air-conditioned and carpeted packing area. Flame away if you want.

Chuck, with all due respect: but your comment sounds like, "if it wasn't done in America or invented by an American", it's not real. (Well, the whole threat is about this.) If you insist confining your experience only to the US and Americans, you live in a pretty small world. Once again, respectfully, but it had to be said. You are kidding yourself if you think Olav Zipser invented flocking. You are also kidding yourself if you think he coined the term. People were flying along in travelling formations long before Olav Zipser ever knew what a parachute was. No-contact tracking four-way diamonds have been a part of the Golden Knights repetoir since the early 60's. Your revisionist history does not sit well with those of us who have been skydiving for more than 20 years. Olav might have been the first to dally with such things in your peer group, but certainly not mine. Chuck Blue D-12501

Schwarzenegger didn't invent body building but it is commonly recognized that he was the one person who popularized it. In the absence of his efforts and accomplishments, you might have a hard time finding a gym these days. Similarly, Schwarzenegger didn't invent the movie genre of Action Film; but he forever changed the face of the movie industry single-handedly by bringing it to new heights and popularity. Along the same line, Olav (and his groups of peers: Omar, Stefania, Mike, etc.) were probably not the first ever to assume these body positions. However, they undoubtedly were the first to explore those in a systematic way and develop a meaningful (understanding the relationships) structure. Their contribution to popularizing free-flying is immeasurable. Guys, let's give some credit where credit is due. Bird-man, Loic, Matter did not invent the modern day wingsuits that are safe for the average 500 jump experienced jumper. But we credit them with promoting them and regard them as the inventors. They did not "Invent" Winged flight, Or the idear of winged flight.... They worked on fixing the problems with winged flight.... They used the lessons learned from the parachute and used it to make winged flight safer then ever before... We don't call Bill Coe the "inventor" of the ram air parachute.... He has done more then any other person to improve the ram air parachute... IMO.. We just LOL at people that are so full of themselves and call thing that people have been doing for years "NEW"... Free style is freak flying with a few different moves.... Base jumping is a "new" way to jump.... RW was a "new" way to jump.... CReW was a "new" way to jump.... When we did CReW with PC's and Crossbows it was still "CReW" So just say you have a few moves that are cool and fun to play with..... Killer.....

even I don't believe that. Saddam's numbers are way higher. Excellent reply. But to the dead it doesn't matter who killed them. Their only wish is to have lived another day... source? Source? Iraqis just like you and me!...

Never expected, always appreciated. Not for the money but for the acknowledgement it conveys. Having said that, it's very sporadically $15-20 bucks here and where. One time, a passenger very discreetly put a bill in my hand: when I opened it, there was a $100 denomination.

On another note: I predicted some two years ago that the US will never ever win this war. Why? Simple: the Iraqis have nowhere to go and their only option is to fight. If it gets too hot for the American boys they will ship back home (cf. Viet Nam). Similarly, while I like and respect the US, if they were to invade my country, I'd be fighting them teeth and nails. And so would you if the Iraqis invaded Iowa or Indiana... End game? Retreat only, just as in 'Nam. Only this time, the world willl be a lot less safe leaving behind a self-created terrorists' paradise.

Putting Saddam Hussein back into power? After all, 9 out of 10 Iraqis prefer the Hussein government to the liberation by US Forces. (Among those killed by the US, it's 10 out of 10). Hussein was the right lid for the (Iraqi) kettle. And no, democracy is not the only or right answer for every culture on this planet. After all, who are we teach a 1000+-year old society how to run their country. And while Hussein was no choir boy, he, arguably, killed less people than Bush and his invasion.

N/A

This is pretty close to my experience and at the heart of why I started this thread. At last, somebody who understands... But to even further this discussion: there are some quite lengthy threads in "Events and Places to Jump" dealing with all sorts of arrangements for any given event: what to bring to drink, to eat, poker play, etc etc. But some of these threads do not contain even one post about skydiving along the lines: "Hey, let's try to built a three-point 8-way HD" this weekend, or whatever else your favorite style of flying is.

I have been in skydiving for almost six yrs (1,200+ jumps, TI , Sr. Rigger and all that), but over the last year or two I have gotten pretty discouraged. At least in my state, it seems all about partying, getting drunk, playing poker all the time at most dz's. Does anyone these days still thinks of skydiving as a SPORT??? (Other than a venue to get laid after too many beers.) Maybe I am too old school...maybe I am just old.

I hear you, bro! How about banning SUVs and signing the Kyoto treatment? Much better, than extinguishing a few smokers....

[....] Here is how it works: -5 members per team, preferably co-ed (aka at least 2 hussies) -You have to blow at least a .10 to participate, not like that's a gonna be a problem(and yes, you will be tested) -Team names, slogans, theme songs and uniforms are encouraged (yes, I know of some teams that have them) The (Dave) Golden Brown's (you have to see them, it's hilarious) are refereeing. You wouldn't believe how much fun it is trying to aim a dodge ball with half a jag going. So start getting your teams together today. Sign up will be at the dz with me on Saturday. You have two days to get ready, I suggest practicing. [...] This kind of BS ("you have to blow at least 0.1") is absolutely, positively irresponsible. Skydiving, general aviation, and forced alcohol consumption just don't go together. PERIOD! Who is going to die the next morning because of a hang-over??? Last year's death count at the boogie was 1; with another person seriously injured. Not trying to be a party-pooper: but are you prepared to die today! Don't!

Doesn't any of the moderators (especially SKYMAMA) know by now that there is a boogie at SDA? Other threads got locked way earlier...

"If the Republicans stop telling lies about the Democrats, the Democrats will agree to stop telling the truth about Republicans". What's wrong with a statement like that? It shows that civilized political discourse in the US among (roughly) 50% of the population has basically broken down. What a sad state of affairs: and this country is trying to teach the rest of the world about democracy (or is that democrazy)? And 90% of the postings in this specific forum attest to that. Sad, indeed...