jimmyh

What's up ya'll? Posted this on the base zone a couple of days ago cuz I usually just talk with the BASE jumpers, but my next video is gonna be more than just a BASE flick. Check out the teaser to my next video, "Keen 'n Able", on the trailers section of skydivingmovies.com Lot's of killer freeflying, TJ Landgren swooping, Sick BASE jumps,and some stupid human tricks performed by, of course, me. The BASE jumpers don't seem to like it all that much. I'd like other input. The full length video will be tight, I promise. later, jimmy

Rhoinda, Hey how's your daughter? She's not still in jail is she? Or was that actucally prison? I woudn't bring it up as this isn't the place to talk about people's personal lives but it seems that you have no problem talking abot your personal life here, or good parenting skills for that matter. When we were living in that same house in Lodi for those those few days that you were here, I remember your daughter was something you talked about a lot, along with herbal remidies. She was what 16 or 17 at the time you were here? Anyway, someone just told me the news that she ended up in prison over all that stuff. Too bad, I thought she wanted to be a vetenarian. Something about you not letting her go to school as any day you were both going to move to California. Sure hope everything works out all right. Tom, lock this thread. It's ran its productive course. later, jimmy

Zennnie, very well said. This does lend itself to spirited debate whereas face to face conversations go quite differently. Many of the face to face conversations I've had recently with "big name" Northern Californian jumpers have been extremely positive. If all you had to go by was this forum you'd think they'd end up with my ass getting kicked. Still, this forum is an excellent place to work through these types of debates. I don't know abut the rest of you, but this has been a good conversation about a very relevent issue. Rhonda, do you remember meeting me on your trip to Lodi a couple of years ago? You are that Rhonda right? I think it's time for you to lie down and be quiet, you don't look so well. Amanda, about his mythical sixteen year old you just created...Remember the Bill Booth waiver I mentioned? the one that 16 year olds and their parents sign almost every day? "there will not now nor will there ever be a perfect plane, a perfect pilot, a perfect parachute instructor, or for that matter A PERFECT STUDENT." Don't tell me tandems are "safe" Seth Blake was an awesome BASE jumper, who took me on my first BASE jump in '91, and it wasn't BASE jumping that killed him. But I'm pretty close to that kid you just described, except now I'm thirty two. At this point in my career, trust me (haha) I know a "good" student when I see one. Sounds like BASE jumping scared you a little bit and you decided to back off. That's good. You probably made the right call. Make your own decisions but let others make there's. k? Skolls, You're lack of base expeience doesn't mean that your analogies have'nt been logically correct. I worked with a philosophy professor back in school and I used to read ethics and value theory, and logic papers for him. Your logic is sound. People have let their emotions write their responses to you. My logic has been sound as well. But I don't or expect others to recognize that. It's just a sign of how much they love this sport, and if that's wrong they shouldn't want to be right. Don't let these people fight with you about what makes a good or loving parent. That's it later, jimmy

emails: (from Clair) I am not mad in any way shape or form. you started me on my way to accomplishing my dream. is there any way that i can help you research this? Could I possibly talk to more lawyers and find out if there is any thing all of us could sign saying that you are not to blame if i did get hurt. did you only talk to one person about this? I know how one lawyer can make it sound like you might spend the rest of your life in jail, but i would like to get a couple more opinions on this subject if that is ok with you. i will get back to you with what i find out. this means the world to me and will do everything in my power to straiten all this out. clair --- jimmy halliday wrote: > Hey Clair, > I did talk to a lawyer and it is with much regret > that I have to stop teaching you to BASE jump until > you are 18. That's just a year and a couple months. > In the meantime, you should come out to the > dropzone and learn to skydive. You're gonna be a > good BASE jumper, and you'll be doing this your > whole life. > > Just remember that I said from > the beginning that I wanted to do this partly for > publicity and that at any time I might decide to > quit the instruction. You stuck your jump and I > would have continued but I don't want to end up in > court against the state of California. > > . > > later, > jimmy If her's is the next generation of lawmakers, I'd say that someday Clair and her friends will legally jump the park.

what gives you the right to call me this: "a dirty stinking site burner as those towers have been jumped since before you ever saw a parachute and you are really fucking up by selling commercial videos that include them . . ."

Why? Because he was a super sick, hard core, camera man who jumped tons of shit in broad daylight and captured much of it on film? Or because I'm an ass hole and he wasn't? Just a little update. We don't call it "cadillac" anymore. We call it the Big Dog, or the Big A. Just so you know for the next time you're out here. If you ask to go jump "Cadillac" very few people will know what you're talking about and you sound like an old timer.

Nick, are you talking about the big A. that went up after the red and white striped one? Cuz I know of some super sick footage of the red and white one that Carl Boenish shot back in the day, and when I say day...

Hey Nick, I was one of the first people Frank Gambali took to this paticular tower after he found it in '96 or '97. He took me out there in broad daylight and said "watch this. And get a good shot." He didn't tell me that he was planning on doing a floater. When he landed, I asked him how it was possible to do a floater off a 480' free standing tower. He was like, "you should feel the wind up there. cool huh? now let me see your shot." Boy, I miss the Gambler, talk about devil may care.

I think this might be the last thing I have to say on this particular thread... The "it's and experiment thing" Again, to refer to the Bill Booth tandem waiver video that thousands of people sign at the DZ that I work at, many of which are parents sitting next to their sixteen year old children. (keep in mind we still show the old waiver video, don't know if it's been changed) Bill Booth: "by signing this document ("Test jumper agreement") you agreeing to become part of a study to prove the safety and effectiveness of the tandem jumping system. In the future, the document you may be asked to sign may be different, after a rule change by the FAA." I told Claire and her mom about my theories about teaching non skydivers to BASE jump. I explained my proposed progression and when I thought skydiving classes would become an absolute neccessity. I told them I had yet to impliment these "theories" or as some might call them cocimaimy ideas, and in that sense Clair was agreeing to become a "test case" "experimental jumper" "guinea pig" whatever. I just call things what they are, and for me Clair was an experiment, one that she, for reasons of her own, was willing to be a part of. THe experiment is over, cuz after legal advice, I realize I don't want to go to court in a "State of California vs. Dumbass" case of manslaughter. But if calling her an experiment and saying we'd see what happens makes me an asshole so be it. I was just using similar language to what Bill Booth used.

Good question. When Clair first emailed me, I almost said no. Then I was like what the hell,and asked her whether or not she was athletic. Her reply was "last Winter I finaly stuck a back flip on a snowboard after landing on my neck wierd a few times." Then I called the references she gave me and they all said she "was pretty hard core." Most others have been friends at the DZ. I definitely have a certain "type" of person that I prefer to teach. You know the type: not lame. However, with Clair it's a moot point now anyway cuz I got legal advice and I'm gonna stop teaching her until she's 18. I said she drove three hours each way. If you all think that this was an attempt to sleep with a sixteen year old girl. You should look at yourselves cuz that thought never once crossed my mind. Your questions were repetitive and they struck a nerve because they never addressed the issue that at the right object, under the right conditions, with the right instruction BASE jumping can be taught safely to someone with no skydiving experience. My "see what hapens" attitude is the same attitude we all take whenever we jump or teach someone else to jump. I know how I should react or would like to react, but I won't know how I will actualy react to linetwists until I have them. I jump anyway cuz I know that when i get them "we'll see what happens" I know how a student should react and I know how I told them to react but I don't know how they will actualy react until they have them. Is it wrong to say that we'll see how my student reacts to line twists when she gets them. What else can I honestly say? No matter which avenue you take when teaching someone to BASE jump you too are taking a "we'll see what happens" attitude because you just don't know what's going to happen until whatever is going to happen happens, and then you see. I never expect someone to get hurt when i take them BASE jumping for the first time and if any of you do, why do you do it. I say, "I don't expect you to get hurt, but you might. Just do what i told you and have fun." Do you all tell the people you teach, "you are going to die or get hurt doing this. But go ahead anyway?" What on God's green earth does my reading or not reading the fatality list have to do with anything. I know of most of the fatalities already and the ones I don't know about wouldn't surprise me. For those of you who do not plan on buying my video, thanks. I would hate for you sacrefice your morals supporting a bastard like myself. For those of you who do, you'll be able to check out Clair's short lived, underaged stint with the sport of BASE jumping. By the way, yonkels

If I say that I believe she's not gonna get hurt while I teach her is just how I feel. She stuck the shit out of her first jump and why should I believe it will be any different with her next ten that we plan to do at the same object under the same conditions. This morning we got winded out so she got her experience with driving 3 hours to a site just to look at it for an hour then drive three hours back home. The name of a little piece of canvas that you hold onto when you flair your canopy, tarp, sheet, parachute, kite, trashbag.....doesn't matter. A rose by any other name still smells as sweet, right? The thing about language and communication is that as long as one person understands the other it's considered successful. Why would it disgust anybody to call the damn thing a yonkel. She knows it's a fucking toggle. I don't consider a sprained ankle being hurt. But she didn't even get that. She unstowed her breaks, turned into the wind flaired the whatever the fuck you call it, at the exact altitude that I told her, and stood up her landing. I said good job you just earned yourself another jump. I'm not naive you stupid bastards I've watched just as many people die as any of you. And for the last time do not compare my first jump course with the fatality list of people who died at buildings, cliffs or other places doing things that a girl with 10 base jumps won't be doing. I can guarantee you she will not have an object strike, she will have canvas above her head, or nylon, or whatever the fucking tarps are made out of, and she will be landing in a feild of grass. That's exactly what a skydiving school can offer. And on a skydiving students canopy program the only bit that matters is the last 50 feet. I don't care if they open at 4,500 feet and practice flairing 600 times. What matters is the last bit. Are they facing into the wind and will they flair their pantaloons symmetricaly at the right time? I watched a seventeen year old girl who's been off student status for a total of 6 jumps land fully crosswind today and barely flaired past her shoulders. She barrel rolled a ton of times bounced up and was like "what the fuck? I gotta do that again just better." It was funny as hell. That's about the worst thing that will happen to Clair at the place I'm teaching her. DO YOU NOT ALL GET THAT? Obviously I'm over it. By the way I haven't read the base fatality list. Could someone tell me if anyone on it was learning to base jump safely at the object I'm refering to? Yonkels

HHHMMMMM. that's got me thinking. Thanks for finding that, but of course there's gonna be a law like that. Anyway I'm gonna talk to a lawyer. As good as we all are at speculating, I wanna hear what a professional has to say. Just keep in mind that I always knew I'd get in trouble if she got hurt. It's my arguement that she's not gonna. I think laws like that only get pursued in the event of an incident, but like I said I will talk to alawyer and pass that along to her parents. You've all done very well. Thanks

Tim, Good question. When I spoke with Clair's mom on the phone, she asked "what laws are you breaking." I told her that as far as I knew, the only law we were breaking out there is tresspassing. I said we'd for sure get cited for that if we were caught. She had no problem with that. So I guess I'd have to say I'm willing to risk a contributing to a minor tresspassing ticket.

HELLvetic, I'm sorry, was I at some point mean to you?

O.K., so say I tell Clair to go away and come back when she's 18...she goes in. Is that better? I'd feel the same. Say I tell her to go away and come back when she's 18 and has 250 skydives...she goes in. Wuold that be better? I'd feel the same. I'd feel the same if anyone I taught went in during the early days of their jumping when to a large degree I am responsible for their safety. At some point we feel less responsible for our students, but that's a grey area too. The question for many seems to be that I'm breaking an ethical law that has something to do with protecting minors from even their parents. Show me the law and I'll stop this instant. seriously someone call CPS, tell them you know of a guy who's teaching a 16 year old to participate in a potentialy dangerous sport that is not governed by any oficial government agency, and that said teenager's parents are fully aware of these activities. Ask them if they were told where this child lives would they go confiscate her from her parents? Honestly I'd like to know. Slims 180 was not at this object. Sites are the number one contributing factor to risk when it comes to BASE jumping "Why not answer the question previously stated by another as well : Jimmy, do you really want to introduce a sixteen year old to this world?" Sorry that's a stupid, loaded question. Why not ask why anyone would want to bring a child into this god forsaken world of misery and disease unless they were millionaires and could afford to buy their offspring an easy, safe ride through life? If BASE jumping is really this dangerous we need to cap it now and not bring any more of our friends into it. Because if it really is as dangerous as many of you say then no one at any age is capable of making an informed, inteligent decision about participating in it. I sit on the other side of the what if? fence than many of you. otherwise I wouldn't ever get out of bed. It's a very unsafe world.

When I was living in Hawaii I saw all these little kids surfing the shit out of these huge waves on the other side of a sign that had a stencil of a guy under a wave with a broken neck that said "DANGEROUS SURF!" WHen these little kids ran out of the surf they were immediately high-fived by their parents. People die in the ocean all the time. Why didn't CPS take these kids away from their parents. Has anyone ever seen MIke Mullins kid swoop? Isn't he like 14? And he sure can swoop. Of all the incidents and fatalities in skydiving, the attmept to swoop often tops the list. Why doesn't CPS take Mike Mullins' kid away. Talk about bad publicity for BASE: quite often the media is there to take pictures when "the best BASE jumpers in the world" go in right in front of them. Why would anyone represent a sport in a positive light when the "best" keep dieing from preventable disasters. What about a different story for the media: Smiling sixteen year old girl learns to BASE jump and loves it. Impossible you say? Bad publicity? What about presenting the sport in a less "we're all crazy and know it, but we do it to overcome wierd issues in our lives" way and more of a "this sport is fun and when done right, it can be done safely." Because it can. Would CPS really take her from her parents in a "heart beat"? I mean is that a legal fact? Cuz they're pretty fired up for her. Gotta go do a tandem later I'd like to address these good questions: -minimal parachute time -minimal reaction time -minimal body awareness time -lack of risk/reason factor (because of age and lack of experience)

Ok, as far as I'm concerned this topic has about run its course,so now (deep breath) let me try to explain myself: Motivation. I believe every act has multiple motivating factors. This is no exception. 1) to stir up shit and get publicity...Absolutely. When Clair first emailed me she had already been denied by more than one BASE jumper, one of whom is a former student of mine who I taought when no one else would because he only had 75 skydives. That was three years ago and now he has 4 times as many BASE jumps as me and only 25 more skydives. I almost said no to Clair, but then isaid to myself, just think of the shit this will stir up among the "community." On some level I just wanted to see what you all would think. 2) to sell more videos...No fucking way. I know it seems like I think any publicity is good publicity and that I will therefore sell more videos. What like 850 instead of 750? Whatever. There is no lucrative market for my videos. I would have to sell 4,000 before I could even think about making a living doing it. That's not gonna happen. Standard Issue was made for three people: myself, Aussie Pete, and Mike Knight. I had one mini-dv copy of it, and I broke two VCRs making dubs one at a time for ten bucks because people thought it was fun to watch. Last year I made RADIX and it was made for about ten people. But I had a bunch of dvd's duplicated just in case other people wanted a copy. I still have 750 copies sitting in my locker. Keen 'N Able will be the same. I'm making it for myself, my friends, and those who will want to watch it and give me twenty bucks for my trouble. I doubt teaching Clair to Base jump wil help me sell 3,350 copies of a video, although it w be the video "that's got that 16 year old girl in it." 3) because believe it or not this where the sport of BASE jumping is headed...yup. Bet you didn't know that I can see the future. In the future (base jumping does have a future after all) Skydiving will be a complimentary aspect to one's progression in BASE jumping, not a categorical prerequisite. The owner of the dropzone I work at was the first DZO in history to put students under ram air canopies. He caught heaps and heaps and heaps of shit from the skydiving community at the time because he was "absolutely going to kill his students." Now, show me a dropzone that puts its students out of the plane under rounds. skydiving and BASE jumping are sports that can lead to injury or death at any time under perfect conditions for no apparent reason at all. We allow 16 year olds to do tandems at our dropzone with parent's consent and BIll Booth's waiver video says "there will not now or at any time be a perfect parachute, a perfect plane, a perfect skydiving instructor, or for that matter a perfect student." 16 year olds and their parents sign that waiver every day at the dz cuz the damn kids want to skydive. As far as the future of BASE jumping is concerned, hear me now and believe me later, there will be a day when it is a comonly accepted fact that skydivng is a neccessary aspect of learning all the skills required to safely make the gambit of available BASE jumps, but is not, however, an absolute prerequisite to getting started. 4) because I want to test the above theory. Yup. I just wanna see if what I just said is true. 5) because of all the reasons many of you have accused me of. Maybe, I don't know. You all might be right. And I am fully aware of the fact that every single one of you might have the blessed opportunity to tell me "I told you so." edit to remove references to and threats of physical violence ~TA later, jimmy p.s. I truly believe Clair will remain unhurt and that many of you will have the opportunity to BASE jump or skydive with her in the future.

So the day before I took her, I sat down with Will, our static line instructor at the DZ, and asked him how he teaches people to fly and land canopies. Let it be noted that, good or bad, we don't use radios on students out here. Will's response was smile, shrug his shoulders a bit, and say, "you tell 'em it's like driving a car. Right turn, left turn stop." He's trained hundreds of students over 10 years. I asked how to explain about the timing of a flair...not too high, not too low. He said, "tell them to begin an even semmetrycal flair at about fifteen feet. They almost always get it wrong in the beginning." i.e. you can only learn something by doing it, and whether you're teaching BASE or Skydiving, the student's ability to follow intructions and do what you say to do when you say to do it is always up to them. We'll see how Clair handles line-twists when she gets them. I told her what I'd do. I think BASE instructors who tell their students to have 75-250 skydives are getting off easy cuz their students have already made all the first parachute landing "my ankle hurts" mistakes.

Hey 460, yes I believe pca'ing people into water with rounds is very safe. That's more like bungee jumping though. A quick thrill ride that leaves the jumper with no tangible BASE experience. I'm not just throwing meat off objects. The idea is to teach someone how to base jump without skydiving experience. That includes exit, opening, and landing procedures. And where I'm doing it, is the safest place possible.

No objects were hurt during the filing of Keen 'N Able

Zennie I hear you, but this is not like putting someone who's never flown a cessna behind the stick of the space shuttle. Where I have her jumping is an object that cannot ever,ever, ever, ever be struck because of the wind. We do floaters off of it all the time. Ans if you take a two off it you will have a 45 second canopy ride. the landing area is huge field of knee high grass All she has to do is unstow the breaks turn and land. I know about progression. This is hands down the safest place for a non-jumper to learn to be a jumper.

Thanks Karen. That was a lot nicer than a pm I just got from TREEJUMPS. Am I aloud to post this tom? Edit to remove PM. Posting PM's or private email into the forum is bad etiquette. Please don't do that. ~TA

Just uploaded the teaser to Keen 'N Able on skydivingmovies.com It's in the trailers section. enjoy. -jimmy

Some good stuff here. You all might not realize it but I do listen. And I believe in the power of discussion. So here's the deal. I think many already know my position on this and many will disagree but I do not believe skydiving to be a prerequisite to learning subterminal BASE jumping. Canopy skills can be learned at the right locations through BASE jumping. Landings in the early days of skydiving can be just as sketchy as when BASE jumping. I've been willing to teach people to BASE jump without skydiving experience for some time and many of those I've taught recently had less than 50 jumps. At the right locations (always please keep that mind) the sport is no more dangerous than any of the other "extreme sports." Many of which minors participate in. I always explain the risk to my students and go through each possible scenario. Then it's on. There is a progression and skydiving does at some point become necessary. Mainly for terminal jumps because tracking has to be learned first. BTW, when Clair did her first jump, her friend Cris jumped as well. I'm not sure how old he is, but he doesn't have any skydives either. He did make some rope jumps with Dan Osmond back in the day. He stuck it too. They both stood up their landings, and I see no reason not to proceed. I learned to skydive when I was 16 and almost went in on my 17th jump. And when I say I almost went in, I mean it. Yet that in no way made me want to stop, and had I gone in, I hope my parents wouldn't have gone to jail. My age had nothing to do with it. What's the difference with this? BASE jumping is a sport that is just now emerging as a legitimate athletic pursuit and I don't believe it neccessarily needs skydiving to hold its hand. And Brit you're right, I do like publicity.

Zennie, I never said I was doing this because I cared about her. I was making a reference to other people who say they care about someone and then control what they do. I'm not hanging out with underaged girls, I'm teaching a 16 yr. old how to BASE jump. I'm going to ask her parents to read this thread, so they can become more informed on what other BASE jumpers feel about the risks she is taking, so could everyone keep the pervert comments contained within PMs. I understand why you all might think that, but if you want non jumpers to take you seriously, talking about statutory rape and other things like that seem a little off. Just asking to keep this BASE related. Sabre Dave, Is that your shot of the quad gainer going off #6 from the side? That's the only Norway shot that I can think that went uncredited. Sorry about that. I should have written down your name before I left. It was an unfortunate oversight. Do you plan on sending me footage for the Keen 'N Able "get your crew in a BASE video contest"?