TVPB

Only when they are putting other people's lives at stake and they refuse to listen to reason. i.e. chat first and highlight the error of their ways. If they ignore it and continue on, you only have two options: 1 - extreme violence. 2 - dob them in to a higher authority. If they are only putting their own lives at stake, that is a euthenasia/suicide debate really!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Fair enough. You may be correct here when putting in in the context of law. That's one for clarification. If driving / owning a gun / walking across the street / etc are legal, how come people get arrested doing those things?????????? Because the activity itself is NOT illegal, undertaking it in a certain way and a certain place is. BASE Jumping is NOT illegal. The catch is, you have to have the permission of the landowner to jump off his/her/it's object. There are also a number of locations where the landowners have "pre-mandated lack of permission". Hence, if you do not get approval, there is a chance you will get arrested. Think about Bridge Day USA. For one day a year, no one gets arrested. During all the other days . . . . . . Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't think most BASE jumpers would appreciate a skydiver showing up at one of their sites in the middle of the afternoon and jumping it with a skydiving rig, so why is it ok for a BASE jumper to show up to a skydiving event to try and make a BASE jump? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, actually, not quite true. If the guy exits below legal deployment height, the pilot can still get screwed as he is still technically breaking rules. Just a different one. It does not matter whether he had a Vector or not. So the type of rig would only add to the trouble in that case, not initiate it. I guess this scenario would be harder to prove accurately and it would be easier for the pilot to make exceuses ("the idiot just jumped, I could not stop him"). A BASE rig would be black and white. The original statement that I was replying to explicitly mentioned rigs. Rigs are complete systems in most people's books. Although it is taken to mean harness/container in the context of this thread. A skydiving rig can be OK in the BASE environment in specific circumstances, as long as the canopy chosen is suitable and the system is configured appropriately. It is however best just to use the right gear for the right occasion in the right environment. Shit, now I'm arguing semantics. Someone ban me for a bit!!!! Can't you do that Bill? Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Thank You for clarifying your point. Your initial statement was: This is definitely incorrect. It is not illegal!!!! There is no such thing as a BASE Jump from a non tethered Balloon either. That is called a skydive!! I believe that what you are trying to state is that it's not cool skydiving without using certified equipment and following appropriate rules. Especially in front of people that could make it difficult for the sport to continue in it's current format. That I have no dramas with. When you make blanket statements like BASE Jumping is illegal, that stuff sinks in to the general population and they start believing it. I just wanted you to understand that your statement was not only incorrect and totally out of context, it is also damaging to the sport. Did you know that skydiving is illegal? Well, it is if you break certain rules and regulations. But if I make that first statement and that is what Joe Average hears and remembers, then guess what? Skydiving IS illegal!!!! In that persons mind. It is akin to gutter journalism. No facts. Just sensationalism. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

How much for that? That will make a few jumpers I know very happy!!!! Oh, you mean going fast!!! If you lived in our country, you would understand, she is as flat as a 12 yo girl. If you want relativity, hang 500 feet of crap off the basket and then do a floater. Close your eyes, then deploy!!!!!!!! Funny you should say that. I know a guy who did a balloon demo jump and he actually got a reference from the organisers for doing such a good jump. That reference is now in his BASE resume. Oh, you meant the other reference . . . . What about using a BASE canopy from an aeroplane? That would be even lamer huh????? ps. Why do you need relativity anyway. Can't you find your way around the sky without some fixed coordinates and landmarks to guide you? Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Sorry. I apologise. I don't know who you are - or what your capabilities are - and I obviously don't know what I am talking about. That is all the more reason why you should just go and do a BASE jump with all your skydiving experience. I will shut up. . p.s. Any chance I could do video????? Please sign this form here. . . . . . Troll!!!!! Troll!!!!! Troll!!!!! Troll!!!!! Troll!!!!! Troll!!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

r.e. BASE Jumpers V Skydivers - it is both ways. And it sucks. Both sports are great. They are different, There are similarities. They are what they are. Why the arguments? People!!!! Insecurity, Ego, ignorance, narrowmindedness, brainwashed, fitting in with the crowd, opinionated without fact/reasoning/information, don't understand the other sport, they heard something they did not like and overreacted (Even though it was their fault), selfish, wanted to appear better and could only use the mouth to acheive that goal, etc. Basically, because some people's attitudes in both sports stinks!!!!!!. Sadly, the angst is about difference, it is not just about BASE v Skydiving. i.e RW v CRW, tandem v sports, etc. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

I second that. And I would like to go one step further. I skydive. I BASE Jump I fly aricraft. I fly gliders, paragliders, etc. I fly in commercial jets. I take joy flights with whuffo friends. I like to watch magnificent birds soaring. It's all good. They are all special in their own way. I have focused on CRW and BASE Jumping only because I wanted to be good at a few things, not average at everything (even though I am average at those two ). If someone does not like it. I don't care. I always will. I will respect everyone for their participation and love for what they do. Don't hang shit on the other aerial sports. This only shows that you are exactly what you don't like to see in non participating people when they comment on your sport. r.e. infighting between BASE and skydiving, it is evident in both. BASE used to be very open minded and many skydivers were against it. Now it is even. There are people in both activities that are strongly opposed to the other. For no good reason. That is their problem as they are missing out. It is OK for a person to choose one and not the other. But it is not OK to hang shit on the other because they are both great sports / activities. Fly free - physically and mentally. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Ha ha. This is a troll. That's funny. No reason? refer to the list BY NDG - see number #38. No matter how many Formula One World Championships you have won, you are still not an astronaught!!!!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Political correctness IS an important consideration. I have to agree to some extent to the above. Most jumpers in both activities have no real idea of what goes on behind the scenes. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Your arguing semantics here. It IS dangerous to jump a skydiving canopy in the BASE environment, the reverse is not true. You can jump any functional parachute out of a plane. However, if you are jumping a skydiving rig with a BASE canopy, that is different to some extent and more acceptable. But it depends on the height of the object too. No point bringing a 2 parachute system on a 300 foot jump. But a 3000 footer, it is OK. See, it is not about drawing a line in the stand and then sticking your head under it, both our sports are about risk management and respecting other people. You can crossover. What would you think about GA schools saying they don't want parachutists on their airport??? p.s. If they are jumping out of an aircraft, it is NOT a BASE jump. It is a skydive. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Yes and no. Coexistence breeds awareness, technology and skill crossover, acceptance by the larger community, etc. It is this narrowminded attitude that shuts down MANY skydiving ops. "Oh, my Llamas/horses/lover don't like the noise from your plane, I don't want you there". DZ gone! Let me give an example of what coexistance does. I competed at World Meet 2003 in France. This event had every event on simultaneously (RW, CRW, S&A, Freeflying, etc). Whilst the World Meet was running 10 Porters, they also had gliding ops, GA training, military ops, etc. NO PROBLEMS. And this is is a mountainous area. Why? Because the people there are fully prepared for each other, full peripheral vision, open minded about other sports, accepting of all their aviation brothers, etc. Why is it in Anglo countries (I am from Oz), that their is disharmony between the various aviation disciplines? Why is it that when I jump at a busy DZ that is marked on the charts, I still see planes flying underneath in freefall? Because of narrowmindedness. "I don't want to share the airspace with you and I do not want to recognise yoru existance. Even if that attitude is detrimental to your safety". I love both BASE jumping and skydiving and over the years have been very active in both. Each has taught a hell of a lot about the other. This has made me a much better BASE/skydiver than I otherwise would have been. I am very happy for those to co-exist in my life. And I do not really care about separatist attitudes. Selfishness breeds accidents in both sports. Tunnel vision for landing areas is being selfish (you are not allowing for other airspace users), not being logically open minded is selfish (i.e BASE jumpers learning their skills in a skydiving environment makes them safer), not sharing airspace is selfish (it breeds airspace users that learn in an environment devoid of other users which leads them to become blinkered), etc. Obviously, too many interactions is not good either and if their is a higher frequency then the controls must be tighter. You do not know. BASE Jumping is not illegal. I won't even bother mentioning all the events around the world and regular jumping locations where the sport/activity is undertaken. SKydiving will always remain legal as it is too big an industry to stop. The only thing that will vary over time will be the level of regulation by the governing aviation and parachuting authorities. Now you've given away the secret. They'll put in a rule against that now too. When I really need to save my life from a catastrophic balloon failure, I won't be allowed to. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Spacy Tracey Walker was involved in TSOing a Perigee Pro in Germany a number of years ago. But then again, the Europeans are more open minded than anglo countries like US and Oz. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Gear needs o be TSO'd. There is no law against it, you just need to get it approved. More than likely that the BASE rig would require a tertiary to be worn prior to gaining approval. Approval takes a lot of work. Most BASE jumpers and skydivers are too lazy to do all that work. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Your logic is there, but there is also a flaw. When someone decides to do a low altitude aircraft jump, well . . . . . . they have decided to do it. Hence just as in the limited altitude BASE jump, they WANT TO exit from a predefined or relatively lower altitude. So going higher actually means that they are not acheiving their objective. They might as well just go and do a skydive! Am I stupid for doing lower altitude jumps? Perhaps! Am I stupid for getting into an aircraft in the first place? Perhaps! Am I stupid for skydiving? Perhaps! Would "most people" think that I am stupid? Perhaps! But most people do not have any understanding of the systems/procedures/equipment/etc involved in Regarding your comment on risk, I believe it is actually safer in many respects (for the jumper exiting - not the ones that remain behind) to do a lower altitude aircraft jump than a similar altitude BASE jump. Why? Airspeed on exit allowing the person to fly versus having to allow for correct positioning and momentum on a BASE jump. Generally no need for object avoidance during deployment and canopy flight. On the flip side, their is probably a slightly higher chance of off headings if deploying straight out of the aircraft for the average jumper. Hence - this is in fact a safer learning environment for people who want to be BASE jumpers. Just as a balloon is a popular learning environment. Just as a bridge makes more sense for a first jump than does other objects, just as . . . . . . . . But I would also like to back you a bit and say that it is NOT for everyone and should be conducted in a controlled way (i.e filtering crappy jumpers and using mentors/instructors/coaches for the rest). p.s. Shit time in MO last week. I was there 3 years ago. So sad. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

I agree - that jumper is an arsehole. But the pilot is still responsible for his/her aircraft. There are also many skydivers out there who do not have any idea of the repercussions of their actions or what the rules are. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

That means it's OK for other people (excluding the some) to be there with their BASE rigs!! A different slant on your comment: "Some people should not be at a skydiving convention life or an airport itself trying to show off they BASE jump Skydive........... " Division creates disharmony. Selfishness breeds division. Narrowmindedness is what holds back 90% of the population. To those who only knock and like to follow rules, excellent. Keep up the good work. To those who don't, please remember to have respect for other people and their property. That means if someone owns a DZ and they don't want someone to use their BASE rigs from an aircraft, then you shouldn't. Just find another venue/location/person. But don't be an idiot about it either. If you have no idea and very little experience, then get this or proper tuition prior/during. It is generally correct that most BASE rigs are not allowed to be used from aircraft. But this is a generalisation only. Single parachute systems ARE allowed (i.e. c.f. pilot emergency rigs). To be "legal", a system must be TSO'd by the relevant aviation authority. BASE rigs have been TSO'd (i.e. Perigee Pro in Germany). Hence, their is a governing authority that HAS accepted BASE rigs. It is possible for others to do so but there is a lot of work involved and it takes a lot of time. A pilot who allows a person to exit whilst knowlingly breaking rules is just as responsible as the jumper, but has more to lose (i.e. his/her license). TO the person who said "this is stupid", in some cases it may be, but in many others it is just your opinion. You are entitled to it. I personally have jumped from aircraft with single parachute systems and undertaken intentional cutaways on numerous occasions. Hence my opinion is slanted to the "allow it" side. However, I would temper that with my earlier statement. And that is that it is NOT for everyone. There are people out there who have a much higher chance of messing up which inevitably leads to serious incidents. So how do you control it? Well, you just make it a rule that you can't do it. That filters out most people. And the ones that are really keen will do it anyway. And now we are back at square one!!!!!!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Sad news. I trained their in 2003, they were ALL really nice people. Link to thread below. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_flat;post=2356575;page=2;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;mh=50; Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

02 - does HD & GP count? They are more fun for mine!!!! 19 22 25 26 29 31 - in person would be nice for a change!! 32 67 - I'll film it!!! 24/33 = Life is great. Looks like I have a few expeditions to plan though.. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Yahoo!!! May the next 500 come at a rapid pace. Blue thingies. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

No need to apologise. It seems to me that your intent is honourable. Why are some people questioning your input is your experience level. This is not a new phenomenon. Every now and again an excited newcomer (1 year in the sport is new) wants to help and contribute as much as possible. This is a good thing and the enthisiasm should be encouraged. However, you must temper this with your experience level. Being a newcomer, you have not had the time to go through many of the intricacies that you need to know on order to educate others. One of these skills is to challenge newbies and question their involvement in the sport. This sport should NOT be handed to anyone on a platter. Not because they don't deserve to be in the sport or because we don't want to share the sport with others - the main reason is that when people get something with little or no effort, they do not truly appreciate what they have got. They take it for granted, they don't put effort into it . . . . . What this means for BASE jumping is that you potentially introduce liabilities to the sport. The sport does not need those type of people. Jumpers do NOT need the potential experience of serious incidents and fatalities, and most importantly of all, the families of those people should NOT go through the experience of losing a loved one. There are many other factors too. A newcomer who is superkeen tends to overload themselves with a raft of information from many different sources. Some if that information is excellent, some contradictory, and some downright dangerous. There are some techniques appropriate to only experienced jumpers, and there are some that students must learn. This information can potentially be misinterpreted or confused with other information by the newcomer, and then delivered to another newcomer - very much like the game of Chinese whispers. Giving information about BASE jumping to newbies involves a very high level of responsibility. Someones life is at stake!!!!!! We should all take that responsibility seriously and not lightly. In some cases it is better to quote experienced people when giving an opinion - it gives greater credibility to what you are saying. And it will get some of those crusty oldtimers off your back too. Other than that, keep up your enthusiasm. It is a good thing. Temper it when giving advice to newbies. And enjoy this wonderful activity that you are involved in. Spend your current time learning, don't waste it on teaching at this point. Develop the skills and experiences that you are keen to teach. Regarding the person you are corresponding with (skyjules), she needs to put in a lot more effort before she even thinks about BASE jumping. That is made obvious to me by her lack of gear knowledge (and jump numbers etc). If skyjules is not a web troll, then I am concerned. As per her quote below, if she does not know the difference between a 9 and 7 cell and she has been jumping them at a DZ, what chance does she have of fulfilling the gear knowldege requirements of BASE jumping? This shows to me that she is not interested in what she needs to know. A parallel - she is not interested in the climb up to the top of Everest, she only wants to stand on the top. That does NOT make her a climber!!!!!!! Sometimes, this is how blunt you have to be. If skyjules is a reasonable person, she will take this constructive criticism on board and put some more effort in. If she is not, she does not really need to be involved in BASE jumping. This is where experience comes in. You get to see the end result of introducing the wrong people into the sport. And you learn about the important of filtering. IF skyjules puts in the effort, great, kudos and open arms, but if she does not, well, I don't want to be standing on the edge with her. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

What about 3-d spacial awareness? What about transitions from one orientation to another and controlling descent rates? What about deployment at the end of the jump and ensuing canopy ride / accuracy landing? What about air time itself? There are some activites that are more relevant than others. BUT all air time helps you develop transferable skills!!!!!!! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Whilst the intent is well meaning, I believe your statement is correct to some extent. There is some BASE experience and you can learn from it, but more time / hard yards / lots of experience would certainly put the said author in a more positive position. They'll get there. It's a phase. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

The entire system and everything that hangs underneath it affects wing loading and should be included. You don't just count the bottom surface of an aircraft wing when measuring its wing loading. Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.

Good observation! Stay Safe - Have Fun - Good Luck The above could be crap, thought provoking, useful, or . . But not personal. You decide.