seal_S49

I'd pack each one as a main and test jump it (I can feel the flames now). If there's any difference in landing, it should be obvious. If not, consider which one has fewer repacks (not necessarily newer) and what color is better--really. A bright solid color that is unmistakably a reserve might be an advantage during a dual deployment or just so others will know you've had a mal. A fabric color that contrasts well with the thread is easier to inspect. Also in extreme cases, a lighter color may pack a little smaller. Speaking of which, I'd also consider pack volume. Does either one of these pack smaller and fit better in your container? That may be a consideration also. BTW, I jumped a Micro Raven 150 loaded above 1.2/1 and find that it lands quite well. I've also landed a Raven I (g) loaded at 1/1 and it feel huge in flight and landing.

That would be a great topic for a new thread.

Probably in an airplane, but one thing is for sure--no amount of rhetorical questions would get him down safely. BTW, do you suppose that it's possible for the winds aloft to be stronger than those on the ground? Congratulations.

I haven't been able to find any credible, canopy-specific information published on that topic. It would be of great help if you would share that. My canopy-control methods are based almost solely on my limited experience. I have, however, noticed that over the last decade, mfrs are responding to customer demand by trimming newer canopies to glide at a steeper angle, more ground-hungry. As we see this flight characteristic becoming more popular, pilots are finding more benefit from rear riser input than from toggles alone. In fact, this dogma is all I hear anymore. A decade ago when the average jumper focused more on brake input, I don't necessarily think that it was from a lack of understanding about glide characteristics. We were just responding to the products we used. Some of us still jump old-school (Stiletto), flat-gliding canopies. To put my post back into it's original context, this is why I don't think it's advisable to teach a student to "always user rear risers," when they're usually flying a lightly loaded canopy with a relatively flat glide, even without input. And mine as well, but I'd never say that out loud around the "always use rear risers" crowd. Again to get back into context, I'm not convinced that either type of rear input is necessarily desirable when downwind from the LZ and trying to penetrate upwind. It is certainly more likely to bring the desired result in a light wind using a more heavily loaded canopy that has a naturally steeper glide. OK, maybe--depending on trim, WL, etc. But when I see a lightweight student under a big canopy downwind from the LZ, and he's barely penetrating or coming straight down, the last thing I'd tell him to do would be "brakes" or "rear risers."

That exact information is hard to obtain; we're still waiting for someone to volunteer to pack different degrees of trash and then test-jump for line-overs. That job is still vacant if you're interested. We've heard some good comments on how to keep the lines organized during and after flaking, but we're all bound to lose some of that neatness when we wrap the tail. If you've done a good job up until that point and don't over-roll the tail or beat-up the cocoon too badly, the lines are only gonna fan out a little bit near their attachment points. Modern main canopies are pretty forgiving about opening nicely in spite of that.

Seriously, is this a generally accepted skydiving term? I, for one, understand exactly what the OP means. I've heard this term often & even used it myself. Coincidentally, real cocoons are made of silk, just like parachutes were at one time. Well OK, maybe there is some of that, but keeping the lines in the center of a pack-job is a basic principal of packing both round and square canopies. After seeing line-over malfunctions on DZ gear, after repairing burned lines/fabric on many canopies, and after listening to lectures from "qualified" staff packers who don't know how many D-lines there are on a 9-cell, I'm just glad that someone is taking in interest. I think this thread covered the topic well enough that I don't need to add anything, but I'm glad the question was raised.

or is it? Sorry, I couldn't help it. You've more than justified your venting and I hope that buyers are reading this. It's difficult enough to get into this sport even without paying too much for gear. Newbies beware!

If you want a really good-quality, helpful video, you may want to consider actually buying one. There are several different ones available. If I had to learn to pack all over again, I would definitely invest in one of these.

Rear risers will take more muscle to pull down, and a shorter stroke will have a more dramatic effect on forward speed & turns. You may get tired of pulling both simultaneously for an extended time. Toggles are easier to pull and have a longer stroke to equal the same input—the advantage being more sensitive, precise control. With a docile canopy, these will probably give you all the control input you need, even when running downwind coming back from a long spot. The advantage of using rear risers to turn is that this can be accomplished immediately after opening before you release your brakes. Later on when you’re a bad-ass skydiver in heavy traffic at break-off, you can use this technique to avoid collisions with other opening canopies. It’s a practice that will serve you well later. As always, your instructor is the #1 person to guide you through the learning process. Your curiosity and interest in learning are a big advantage in progressing with all these skills.

Your wing load and canopy performance are way more than the OP (student), so we can't expect the techniques that work for you (under some conditions) to have the desired effect on a docile to moderate canopy at light to moderate wing load. I won't contradict your own experience, but even as you mentioned, the rear riser technique will have a diminishing benefit as headwind increases. With a more docile canopy there will be no benefit at all in a headwind--in fact it's counterproductive. In my own experience at wing loads up to 1.5 (way above the OP/student), I still get the best penetration into a moderate headwind by letting the canopy fly. As the wind increases, I may need to use front risers. While it's true that rear input (toggles or risers) "flattens the canopy," this may not actually flatten the glide. Although you are slowing your rate of descent, you're also creating more drag and slowing your airspeed. With enough tailwind, these disadvantages are overcome to increase your travel accross the ground. With enough headwind, they are amplified to reduce that travel. The trade-off point will depend on a canopy's performance envelope.

WTF?

Now there's a rhetorical question if I've ever heard on. It's just another way of saying, "I'm way more cool than you because I jump a higher wing-load." No shit, but that wouldn't do any good. When that happens to me, I focus on my own objectives in this sport. I also try to jump w/ others who are more interested in fun & learning that in proving how cool they are. I even choose where I jump based on this concept. The best I can say is that it will get easier to ignore these morons after you have been in the sport longer and satisfied more of your own personal objectives. You're gonna outlast them and even if they're still around in 10 years or so, they're eventually gonna know your were right all along--either way you win.

And do they have the advantage of being deployable w/ left or right hand?

I've trained hundreds of students how to fix that, and so far none has ever failed to do so successfully--pretty small inconvenience considering the reliability of direct-bag. Anyway, line twists are a possibility w/ any system. I consider that an advantage after seeing unstable SL exits that result in rotation. It's not supposed to be a FF jump.

There is no canopy size that is safe. Any canopy can kill you.