Froggy

Ahh... My bad then, and my apologies for the lapse of a sense of humour. The only thing I can say to my defence is that I don't find the subject funny. But using smileys when needed never hurts, too... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

1. peaceful Christians 2. cease to exist The fact that they are Orthodox Christians in the majority is obvious, I wasn't arguing that. But the rest of your passage that I quoted is, as I said, either ignorance or bullshitting. -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

I am assuming this is directly related to the current S. Ossetian conflict? If so, you have absolutely no freaking clue whatsoever what you are talking about -- it's called ignorance. Or, it could be much worse if you know exactly what you are talking about -- then it's called bullshitting... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

I am sorry, but it's neither "historical", nor "analysis". Just another idiot talking out of his a$$, full of shit as stupid as his butterface. Too much to argue -- I'll just say that everything he said from beginning to end is either a complete crap, or half the truth which actually is even worse, since it makes it look believable to those who have no idea whatsoever about the history of the region, let's say, at least from 18th century (1783, to be exact)... Yes, I am biased, and I admit it. At the same time, I am very far from thinking that Russia has never done anything wrong -- it has, not once, and not twice... But I strongly believe in one thing that is called common sense. There appear to be a serious lack of it among too many people nowadays... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

I don't even know how to comment on this... If you think Russia is a communist state, I suggest you come out of hibernation. As for atrocities and who committed them, please read at least some alternative news reports, besides Fox News and the likes. Geez... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

Just like I said -- semantics. :) Frankly, I see no point in getting into endless casuistic exercises... Dixi. -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

So, it's pretty much about semantics. In your own words, "Discussing the subject is usually more productive"... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

OK, then tell me, do you respect the law (even though you may not respect the lawmakers)? -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

Wow, that's something new... So, say, for example, you may have no respect whatsoever for some criminal motherf@cker (i.e. someone), maybe murderer or rapist. Does it automatically mean you do not respect their right (i.e. something) for a fair trial? -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

I apologize if I sounded a bit... harsh, may be. But looks like you've got it right -- I just wanted to clarify some things that may not be obvious... I am not a historian, but, as I said, I lived in the USSR (NOT in Russia) for quite a long time, and some time after it fell, so take it just as my personal experience. Anyhow, the discussion is veering off to a different topic (which even has it's own thread). In the context of this topic, however, my opininon is that the U.S. has no business there what-so-ever, and should stay away from all this. Not that it will actually happen, I am not so naive... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

May be getting a bit off-topic here, but since you mentioned this (see my emphasis), I'd like to respond... Since you said in your other post that you have a big interest in history, may I suggest you check your facts? I am speaking as a person who lived over 20 years in one of the former republics of the USSR. I am Russian by birth, but used to live in Estonia from 1974 through 1996, until I left for Canada. Plus, my grandfather was a Ukranian, so I have been to Ukraine more than once or twice. Plus, I visited several other former republics, too... I think I can say that I know first-hand a little bit of what I am talking about. As for the religion, unfortunately, the "wipe-out" was happening all across the USSR in the early years. Later, in more "reasonable" times, religion was simply separated from the state (a very good thing to do, IMO), but not suppressed or wiped out. Georgians in their majority, BTW, are Orthodox Christians, just like Russians, even though they are not Slavic. So, what I am saying is that the early "wipe-out" of religion was not being done to dilute the induvidual history or identity of smaller nations -- it was simply a policy of an "atheist state"; and later, the religion was pretty much left alone, so your argument doesn't make much sense, sorry. Now, regarding the "suppression" of the language. Can you please define what suppression means in this context? See, the interesting thing is that, even though Russian was the official state language in the USSR (nothing wrong with that, IMO), every republic's population had full rights to use their own language equally along with Russian. Mass media (TV, radio, press)? Check! Justice system? Check! Law making and law enforcement? Check! Culture (music, literature, etc.)? Check! Education? Check! (BTW, the choice of education in the national language was the norm on all levels, from pre-schools to universities). Business documentation? OK, this was a bit more complicated in reality, I admit... What's happening now is that all these republics-turned-independent-countries are being presented by their politicians as victims of a total "cultural genocide", which NEVER HAPPENED! Why? Well, how convenient is it to pose as a victim to accuse the "empire" of all possible and impossible sins... Anyway, just wanted to let you know that if you are using certain "facts" in your argument, it's worth checking them first. You may be surprised with what you find out... I honestly don't think this is exactly what they want, let alone the fact that it's pretty much impossible for number of reasons... What would be good, though, is to have somebody actually sane as the Georgian president. As one of the Russian journalists said recently, "there are a lot of pro-Western and pro-NATO characters in Georgian political opposition who are at least not schizo-paranoid, able to negotiate, and overall far better for both Moscow and Washington"... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

Funny, I thought there was another word for that kind of act... Masturbation, may be? :) -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

Didn't get it... Nor do I know the characters, sorry. -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

Unless you are talking about a different quote that I haven't heard, I believe this information may be incorrect. Here is what Sergey Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister, said: "might as well forget about the territorial integrity of Georgia, because I believe Abkhazia and South Ossetia would never agree to be forced back into the Georgian state" (translation is mine, so it's not official). This is quite different from "the Georgian Republic doesn't exist", besides, it wasn't said by the Russian PM. I may be wrong, though, and these may be different things... Can you provide a link to the quote you mentioned? -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

That's your take. My take is that I made my conclusions based on the information I got, discarding things that didn't make sense, and acknowledging and taking notes of things that seemed reasonable. Remember, we are talking about opinions here -- there is simply no such thing as 100% objective and unbiased information, or the "ultimate truth". No. I didn't say that this is the only response there is from Western media, and I definitely see the opposing views. I only said that I see some indications to support my point of view, especially when those messages are coming from sources that originally took a totally different stance. Is that not a fair statement? BTW, Zhirik sometimes says surprisingly interesting things that at least make you think -- he sure is a clown, but most definitely not an idiot. Doesn't matter, though, as in this particular case I don't even know what he was/is saying. As for oper.ru, it's quite an interesting site, of course, if you don't consider comments themselves as "news". The good thing is that you can find references and links to all sorts of different information there, from sources all over the place, in which sense it's no different from many, many other sites on the Net. The rest is up to you using your brain. BTW, by slapping an "idiot" label on it, you are simply discarding something that doesn't match you POV -- isn't that what you are accusing me of doing? :) I somehow think you know yourself that this is a BS; therefore, no comment. Just wondering why you picked China for this argument, and not New Zealand or Argentina, for example -- it would be just about as relevant... You have your right to hope all you want. Mechtat' ne vredno ("keep dreaming" in Russian). Everybody is biased -- more or less. Me, you, everybody else. That's the way it is, can't help it. I am not saying it is, even though I personally think so -- there is a difference between somebody saying or doing something while being aware that they are wrong, and saying or doing so believing that they are right. However, you decide what's important to you -- discard it or acknowledge (and now we are back to the beginning)... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

You are right on the fact that I wasn't there. Believe me, I know full well that there is no such thing as truly independent media -- neither in Russia, nor elsewhere, and i do NOT consider any of them as "the only true" source. I did check multiple sources -- official, so called "independent", personal blogs, political and non-political forums, YouTube, whatever... Yes, I did check Georgian news, too. Everybody arguing here is expressing their opinions, and obviously everybody thinks that their opinion is the "right" one -- otherwise, there would be no argument. Nobody here can claim at this point that they have only objective, factual, unbiased information. That's the truth. However, I do see some clear indications in favour of my POV, like western news agencies changing their descriptions of events, because it's so obvious that they have no choice. I already mentioned that about BBC. There also appear to be pretty strong messages from German sources condemning Georgia, NOT Russia, and acknowledging the possibility of Saakashvili being charged with war crimes. Have you heard Churkin's speech at the UN? IMO, that's the example of how the situation should be handled -- I was so proud of that guy! Too bad nobody wanted to hear what he was saying... It's a shame Russia didn't go into Tbilisi, and capture that f@cking a$$hole Sukashvili to bring him to court. Well, that didn't happen, and it remains to be seen what comes next... Am I biased? Yes, I am! Do I believe I am right in my opinion? Make your guess. -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

LOVE it, wonderful!!! -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

Yes, it IS quite simple, actually... Georgia attacked the Ossetians, who defended themselves. At the same time Georgia directly attacked Russian peacekeeping forces in Tshinvali (10 to 15 people were killed in the first night attack). Russia defended their own forces AND Ossetians, most of which are Russian citizens. What other reaction from Russia would you expect? BTW, those forces have been operating there under UN decree since 1992. At least, BBC changed their tune from "Russia attacked Georgia" to "Russia responded to Georgian military action". But they are still feeding the world with complete BS -- how convenient it is to quote Putin, and completely remove the key part of the quote, changing its meaning... Good job, motherf@ckers! -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

Right on! 'nuff said... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

Yes. Being "extremely" religious most often equals to, or borders on FANATISM. While I understand that sometimes those "extremists" may not directly try to influence people around them, more often than not this is exactly the case. They try to promote (not sure if it's the right word, but I can't think of another) their views, or even worse -- enforce them. I had a looong, and I mean all-night long, conversation once with a die-hard Catholic, who appeared to be on a mission to convert me. Boy, was I tired like hell, and absolutely pissed! I have nothing against any relegion -- even though I am completely, 100% non-religious person, I respect everybody's right and freedom to believe whatever they want. That is, unless and until it starts to interfere with lives of others around, who are not sharing their beliefs. As they say, in more general terms: your freedom ends where my freedom begins... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

WTF is Russia doing? Well, for starters, protecting their neighbors, many of whom are in fact Russian citizens, from GENOCIDE (that's, BTW, is WTF Georgia is doing). Now, WTF is USA doing? Easy, too: everything it can to escalate the conflict (while pretending to be doing just the opposite, of course) to a point when it would be possible to put NATO "peacekeeping forces" in the region, and then establish and maintain full military presense there. Georgia attacked Tshinvali at night. They were not hitting military targets (e.g. rebels) -- they dropped Grad missiles on a sleeping city, killing up to 2000 civilians. And now the Russia's response is called "invasion" and "aggression"?!? The terms "sovereign country" and "respect for territorial integrity" in modern days became jokes when NATO started bombing Belgrade years ago. When I hear the moron in the White House (how the hell he became the leader of the current #1 world power -- TWICE! -- is beyond me, but I digress) using those terms commenting on the events in Ossetia, it makes me grin in pain... And, BTW, speaking of puppets... Medvedev may be a Putin's puppet (I mostly agree with that), but Saakashvili is most definitely a puppet of the White House. He would not have done anything like this without direct or indirect (but nevertheless very clear) approval from his "big daddy". Only a complete idiot wouldn't see through this... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

Well... This post has created quite a stir on one of the most popular (if not THE most popular) russian-speaking skydiving forum, which happens to be -- you guessed it -- Ukranian. :) The bottom line is that, even though SOME occurences of tampering with the DOM and SN's on the equipment do exist, it's not even close to being "widely acceptable". Most of these incidents relate to the old (and I mean REALLY old) military equimpent, which is still used at some places -- I am talking about round canopies and some of the first models of square ones). Chances for any of that equipment to show up on American DZ's is... well, I'd say below zero. :) Besides, please DON'T jump into conclusions about the skydiving in the whole country based on some hearsay post. It's pretty much the same as claiming that all American skydivers need to be extra-scrutinized because SOME of them do occasionally pencil-pack their reserve... Please, people, use your common sense! To katrina -- I would strongly suggest thinking twice about posting such crap in these forums. While your personal concerns may be understandable, the information you are giving to the audience has pretty much nothing to do with the reality... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

I'd vote for Dell. OUr company uses Dells (~500 or so), me and my wife have ours, too. Never had any problems with them. And if someting happens, Dell support for workstations and laptops is far superior to their support for servers (THAT I would avoid at all cost). IBMs used to be extremely well-built and reliable laptops -- I mean real IBM ThinkPads, until they sold the business to Lenovo... Yes, technically you can. Sometimes it's advertised, sometimes it's not, but you can always request it. If you look at Dell's web site, some laptops do have both options listed. The thing to know is that Micro$oft just recently has decided to let OEM manufacturers supply XP with their PCs until mid-2008. Kinda gives you some idea about how well Vista is doing... :) -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

To me, the most stupid skydiver ever would be Scott Lutz. :) I mean, the guy's name has become a synonym of idiocy... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...

I like what's on one of my t-shirts (from Skydive Space Center): "The sky is not the limit! The ground is..." Also, may not be originally skydiving-related, but fits very nicely, IMO: "The art of flying is to throw yourself at the ground and miss." -- Douglas Adams -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall...