sfc

What a lot of nonsense. No one with any credibility at all argues that there exists a SINGLE right that is "UNLIMITED." Even one's right to LIVE is not unlimited. So there's no setback involved, here, Kallend, since there was no credible claim ever made in the first place that our 2nd Amendment rights are "unlimited" or are supposed to be. Sheesh. Talk about a strawman. Where do you think the limits should be?

What a dull speech, the Rs are really nice giving him that applause. It will be responsible for a minor downward blip in US births in 9 months due to the state of mind it induced. When he laughs hard I keep on thinking he is going to croak, it was the only thing that kept me awake.

When I get citizenship I'll be proud to be an American, but I'm still a liberal (by your definition of not supporting a republican). How does that fit into your bullshit statement. Oh it doesn't does it, your just spinning another nasty attack from the right, make you feel proud and patriotic to slam half of your countrymen for thinking freely like the founders intended? In other words, you are not an American yet, and cannot vote, so why waste your breath on telling us why she is such a poor choice? Because I know you'll read it, and you and many other did :) My wife will vote. If bush had prevented a record INS backlog then a lot more people would be citizens and voting this time round.

Couldn't agree more.

The 5% will be spun well, at the end of it the "R"s wll believe that Bush is from a different party.

When I get citizenship I'll be proud to be an American, but I'm still a liberal (by your definition of not supporting a republican). How does that fit into your bullshit statement. Oh it doesn't does it, your just spinning another nasty attack from the right, make you feel proud and patriotic to slam half of your countrymen for thinking freely like the founders intended?

sorry, i didn't realize you were having a private conversation. seriously, was there really anything she could have said to make you like her? i get the fealing that you made up your mind that you didn't like her before she even started to speak. that's ok, i liked her before this speech, but it is clear from your first post that you only heard what you wanted to hear. I don't like what she stands for (censorship, abortion, oil, guns and republicans), but I don't have any beef with her personally, and no shit of course I had an opinion before I heard her speech. I did not hear what I wanted to hear, because I heard nothing of substance, I had hoped she would try to give reasons to make me believe she would be OK as a leader but I only heard the same old partisan attacks and some nice family stuff. Unlike Biden I think she really needs to prove herself, there is a good chance that she will get the top job with McCain being in his 70s.

You have to admit she is cute for a VP. Personally I wouldn't vote for her for this reason alone, but you can imagine that some people wood :)

Maybe she kicked your ass, but mind did not get any feeling at any point during the speech.

Trouble, you have to be kidding, did you look at the polls in the last two or three days, he is probably out celebrating right now. When he old dude gets up tomorrow night it will be a real anti-climax, he has the charisma of compost, Palin was the only chance he had to get interesting and it didn't happen.

Obama was a bit over the top, but he did kindof explain how he was going to pay for things, but lacked details. For me comparing the two the biggest difference was that Obama's speech was about what he would do and why you should vote for him. Palin's was more about why you shouldn't vote for the other side. you are aware that they are running for different offices right? Really? I had no idea, thank you for pointing that out. If you'd read the whole thread you might have noticed I was responding to happythoughts.

Obama was a bit over the top, but he did kindof explain how he was going to pay for things, but lacked details. For me comparing the two the biggest difference was that Obama's speech was about what he would do and why you should vote for him. Palin's was more about why you shouldn't vote for the other side.

So she tells us: How she likes men in uniform. Spends forever talking about her family, yawn... Use disabled kid to appeal to other disabled parents. Hi mom and dad. She likes hockey mums (i dig this, some of them mum are hot). She was in the PTA (great this will really help her run the country). Cheap shots at Obama, nothing about policy. "John McCain is the same man" (McSame ?) Thinks she is going to Washington. She likes to drive herself to work. She wants to drill drill drill. More negative against Obama, nothing of substance and to why we should vote for her. Tearjerking references to McCain in prison and how prison experience will help run the country. A speech of soundbytes. Nothing of value, but she does have nice jugs (not well presented tonight), but not the person to run the country if McCain kicks the bucket (statistically he should die around the end of his presidency) It is a good day to be a democrat.

You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come. The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns. It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason). I've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK and simply likes to show gun bans around the world are not working. How do you brits not get that? Keep your gun ban if you like....that's fine with us but as long as you do us progunners will conitnue to use it as a good example of what we don't want and why. Now quit taking it so damn personally. Also when referring to the 'UK gun ban' we are referring to the ban enacted in your country in 1997. Nothing personal, I don't care about the UK gun ban, I haven't lived there for 8 years. UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that. All the BS stats people post about guns here should have told you one thing and that is that you can find stats to prove anything you want. The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away. I had hoped that the SCOTUS ruling would have helped put that to rest but I guess not. One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK. I realize you're a brit but you really need to become more informed regarding this issue. As far as the SCOTUS ruling....do you realize the same man who took this issue all the way to the Supreme Court STILL CAN'T register his firearm? Think about for a minute. You've got to love the American legal system, it is slow. He will get his gun registered it is just a matter of time, probably years knowing the way that the system works. Ohhh Emmm Geeee http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=heller+permit+denied google is your friend. He can register a different handgun (maybe he has) which meets the registration requirements. There will be a pissing match about what kinds of guns can be banned, and it will take years to clear up, but the basic principle has been decided don't you think?

You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come. The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns. It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason). I've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK and simply likes to show gun bans around the world are not working. How do you brits not get that? Keep your gun ban if you like....that's fine with us but as long as you do us progunners will conitnue to use it as a good example of what we don't want and why. Now quit taking it so damn personally. Also when referring to the 'UK gun ban' we are referring to the ban enacted in your country in 1997. Nothing personal, I don't care about the UK gun ban, I haven't lived there for 8 years. UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that. All the BS stats people post about guns here should have told you one thing and that is that you can find stats to prove anything you want. The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away. I had hoped that the SCOTUS ruling would have helped put that to rest but I guess not. One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK. I realize you're a brit but you really need to become more informed regarding this issue. As far as the SCOTUS ruling....do you realize the same man who took this issue all the way to the Supreme Court STILL CAN'T register his firearm? Think about for a minute. You've got to love the American legal system, it is slow. He will get his gun registered it is just a matter of time, probably years knowing the way that the system works.

All it will take is for the Dem's to win the Senate majority, just a handful of seats, and for Obama to win the Presidency, which is about a 50-50 possibility right now. Then, with the Dems in charge of all three of those legislative and executive branches of government - yes, it's very possible. Almost certain. There would be nothing to stop them. That's because registration has never proven to be effective at preventing crime. Anywhere. And this is the kind of stuff you use to claim that pro-gun folks aren't willing to do anything to fight gun crime. That's not true. They're just not willing to do stupid stuff, like your registration suggestion, that is proven useless, and which leads to infringements of their rights. SCOTUS has upheld the constitutional right for the individual to bear arms, I don't think the dems will ever get a majority big enough to change the constitution, that takes more than 50% of cogress and most of the state governments, you should know that what with you being an American. So tell me what do you think should be done to cut the illegal gun trade. All I get from reading your posts is an angry man wanting to prevent any gun control legislation from being enacted regardless of its intent. You piss on every idea that anyone suggests and post BS about other countries that don't even come close to the scale of the illegal gun trade the USA has.

So you appreciate having the right to shoot guns, but you're against the NRA trying to preserve your right to shoot guns. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Twisting words as usual, I am not against the NRA preserving rights, I am against the NRA block all and every attempt to crack down on the illegal gun trade.

What other nation recently changed to a total ban, not to mention was the basis for much of our government and system of law? There's no better example out there than England, however much the two have diverged in 2 centuries. Plus, if what SFC is true and you can't compare the U.S. with the U.K., then there really is nowhere you can compare with the U.S., and so anyone who says to us that other countries have gun bans so we should too, should STFU! You can't say that we can't compare the two countries when it makes gun bans look idiotic, and then say that the countries are similar enough that we ought to try out the gun bans they've been attempting. Pro-gun folks are always using this argument to criticize gun laws in other countries. Given the SCOTUS ruling and the general sentiment in this country do you really think that there is a chance guns will be banned in the same kind of way they are in the UK? I don't think so. The kinds of threads that John post are BS and just designed to stir shit that prevents dialog towards figuring out what can really be done about reducing the number of criminals getting guns. If I suggest something like registration I get the pro-gun folks frothing at the mouth. I support the 2nd amendment, I am pro-gun but I want a meaningful effort to reduce illegal guns, hearing about guns laws in the UK which don't apply to the US is crap and makes pro-gun look like the idiot politicians who mostly do nothing but BS on our dime.

What other nation recently changed to a total ban, not to mention was the basis for much of our government and system of law? There's no better example out there than England, however much the two have diverged in 2 centuries. You can't ignore the facts here. Until Nov of 2000, the Brady people were hardly subtle about their desires to take guns away. Only three years ago San Francisco tried to do it anyway. Can't ignore facts, you can't get the facts right, the spin from the pro-gun is so strong you have been fooled into believing BS. The UK gun ban is not a total ban, it is a handgun ban. As far a running scared, I can see why the pro-gun was so strong before the SCOTUS ruling, but now the rights have been clearly stated it wont be going away any time soon, so why not try and clean up some of the illegal stuff?

You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come. The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns. It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason). I've been around long enough to know John has nothing against the UK and simply likes to show gun bans around the world are not working. How do you brits not get that? Keep your gun ban if you like....that's fine with us but as long as you do us progunners will conitnue to use it as a good example of what we don't want and why. Now quit taking it so damn personally. Also when referring to the 'UK gun ban' we are referring to the ban enacted in your country in 1997. Nothing personal, I don't care about the UK gun ban, I haven't lived there for 8 years. UK is a crap example to use against gun bans, it is a different nation, different gun mentality, the British on the whole don't care and they don't have or want a 2nd amendment, one day you might realize that. All the BS stats people post about guns here should have told you one thing and that is that you can find stats to prove anything you want. The only thing that bothers me about guns in the USA is that the pro-gun lobby wont do shit to help stop guns becoming illegal claiming that it is some left wing conspiracy to take guns away. I had hoped that the SCOTUS ruling would have helped put that to rest but I guess not. One of the things I like about guns in the USA is that I have had fun shooting that I could never do when I lived in the UK.

You need to look at John's record of posting UK bashing threads, he has posted crap about guns and the UK for years and will probably continue to do so for years to come. The UK has never had a right to guns like the USA, so no right has been taken away. "pipe dream", that is bullshit, gun crime is way lower in the UK than the USA, it always has been and that is no pipe dream, and most people want to keep it that way. I lived in the UK for my first 30 years, so I know that most people don't give a shit about not being able to own guns. It is a different culture, if you don't like it move out, I did (although not for the gun reason).

There were only 59 gun related homicides, up from 49. You have to put in into perspective. You have to add some zeros to this to get the the US gun related homicide figure. To answer the question in the title, yes the UK has less guns and less gun crime than the USA. (and the UK counts air guns in its stats) Does it mean anything, no, it is like comparing apples and bullets. It is just another bash of the UK.

She has nice tits (assuming it is her, they do look real), I'd give her a 7/10. Although they are probably a little south of where they are in that picture by now with age and children. Reinforces the VPILF image, but the reality is that if she does get elected with mccain she will the the one fucking us.

I can see that you've drunk the gun-control kool-aid. You're saying all those nice-sounding things, but the problem is, you aren't providing any specifics. And without that, all the nice-sounding things are absolutely worthless. What "more measures", specifically, would prevent criminals from buying guns? And you want every public street to be treated like airport security? You want people walking through metal detectors everywhere we go? Sheesh, there goes the Bill of Rights. You would turn America into a gulag in order to catch criminals with guns? How, specifically, does having my gun's serial number in a computer stop some criminal from committing a crime? You're suggesting that registration reduces crime, when there is no evidence anywhere in the world of that actually being effective. I can tell that you're naive on this issue, and you've got a lot to learn. So you are throwing in the towel and saying it is too so to control so don't bother. If serial numbers are tracked then when an illegal gun is used it makes it easier to trace the history and track the person who made it an illegal weapon. Yes I know numbers can be removed, but more could be done to make this harder and not all guns have the serial removed. I think banning sales at gun fairs would also help. Yes it would piss some people off but would not prevent you exercising your 2nd amendment rights. More verification of gun sales, a significant amount of verifying registration data will prevent illegal sales. Are you opposed to better enforcement of existing gun laws, and if so on what grounds?

As soon as you point out a law to us that criminals will obey, we'll listen. Can you? There are 20,000 gun laws on the books now, and apparently you think that none of those are working. But you've got some magic proposal for us that will succeed where all these others have failed? I can see that you haven't bought a gun in the last 15 years. I've never had to have an FBI background check done on me to board an airplane. Heck, if I could buy a gun just by taking off my shoes and walking through a metal detector, that would be great! Criminal laws need to be enforced, thats why we have law enforcement, we have locks on banks and fences on our borders to prevent criminals breaking the law, I think we could have more measures that prevent criminals buying guns, we have spent billions preventing criminals taking guns and other weapons on aircraft, we can do the same with the street, it wont be 100% effective but it will reduce the illegal supply of weapons. Registration and better tracking of individual weapons from manufacturer to customer (like they do with cars) would go a long way to help. It would make gun owners have to deal with more paperwork but I think that would be a fair trade for the reduction in crime. Been to a gun show recently? I didn't get screened to enter and I didn't buy a gun but it didn't look like everyone was even showing ID.