FLYJACK

What a stupid thing to say.. In Chaucer's summary he said... "* When he was done with his drop analysis, he turned over his drop zone map along with the yellow flight path map over to the FBI. Thus, Spangler did not create the yellow flight path map, he simply used that map to create the very first drop zone map - one which we have never seen." The map wasn't yellow. I had concluded the map was white.. it isn't clear in that passage if Chaucer had communicated to Spangler using the term "yellow map"... or only used in the summary... Get it. AND STOP WASTING MY TIME WITH THIS NONSENSE This place is really deteriorating.

That was basically my conclusion,, I found that AL95MG5 is used in too many applications to narrow down to anything meaningful..

I only brought it up initially for clarification... as I remember concluding it was white with a yellow lamination. The creator would have thought it was white. olemiss then challenged me.. I found the pic and it is settled.. no big deal

There is no argument about the map colour.. You talked to him and used the term 'yellow map" in your summary.. My point is that it wasn't yellow,,, I don't know if you used the term "yellow map" with Spangler but you did in your summary. If you did refer to a "yellow" map with him he would not know what you were referring to,, it was white. But, overall, your interview basically confirmed what most of us already concluded and put yet another nail in the coffin for the Western Flight Path. Those of us who already accepted the flight path have noting to add and those that have pushed the WFP have no response. If you used the term "yellow map" with Spangler then his responses may not be accurate. If you only used "yellow map" in your summary then it is inconsequential. What sucks is when people fail to recognize context and say stupid things.

This is why forum's suck..

Sure, a planned LZ is a general area, not too exact.. Forget about Mac or other hijackers.. these are not comparables. How many hijackers jumped very close to where their hijacking started. How many hijackers gave no directions at all. How many changed their demands. How many were never identified. Other than heading south Cooper had no way of knowing where the plane was going to be before he jumped... his jump was ad hoc for three reasons,, he didn't know where the plane was going to be, he was delayed and he changed from his initial plan to then jump ASAP. I don't think the map is yellow, if I recall correctly from images I have seen the laminated part that goes slightly outside the map is yellow, therefore the lamination is 100% yellow. If the map was yellow and the lamination clear the laminated part outside the map would be clear. If both the map and the lamination was yellow then the map portion would be darker yellow than the laminated part outside aka double yellow for the the map plus lamination.. The yellow is consistent for the map and the lamination outside the map. Those original maps are white, not yellow.. So, logic and evidence indicates the map is white and the lamination is yellow. Anyway, I looked at this a while ago and that is how I remember it. My conclusion was that the lamination was yellow not the actual map. Edit,, Lucky I found it right away.. 100% confirmation the lamination is yellow.. and if the map was also yellow it would be darker yellow, a yellow map plus yellow lamination.. it isn't, therefore only the lamination is yellow. My point was Chaucer was talking to Spangler and referred to the yellow map... It wasn't yellow. case closed

olemisscub misunderstood.. My theory is NOT that Cooper didn't have any idea where he wanted to jump... Of course he did,, my theory is that he changed his plan when Reno was in play. That is supported by the demand change from initially airstairs down in flight to on take off... Cooper had no way of knowing where he would be when he did jump... he was delayed and the plane could have been 30 miles E or W... There is no way he jumped where he had planned prior. Cooper's LZ was 100% ad hoc.

LA and SF would have flown V-23.. San Fran is just W of Red Bluff and LA is actually E of Red Bluff.. they didn't have to stick on V-23. So, no reason to reject those Airports. True, while there is no evidence for any particular LZ (initial) the evidence supports an initial LZ south of Cooper's jump. I don't think your going to wing your LZ,, Cooper had an idea where he was going to jump when he stepped on the plane. You don't get what I am saying.. Cooper boarded the plane with an LZ in mind.. when Reno was negotiated he decided to not be on the plane in Reno and jump ASAP.. he had a little trouble with the stairs and jumped a bit N of Portland.. He did not plan to jump where he did jump for two reasons,, he was delayed and he did not know where the plane was going to be. He knew it was headed south but it could have been 20 miles E or W. The copycats knew where they wanted to jump supports my argument.. Cooper knew where he wanted to jump UNTIL Reno was in play. Because he gave no directions doesn't mean he had no initial LZ.. He would have given directions later in the air. But he changed his plan to jump ASAP. He then wanted out right away and did't need to give directions, but was delayed... He didn't say fly nonstop to Mexico City, he said we are flying to Mexico City but can refuel in Mexico only.. they had planned Mazatlan. If they were refuelling somewhere in Mexico then why did he say going to Mexico City.. The early 727 range isn't clear... there are 727 numbers from 1900-3400 miles.. It depends on the year, model and options.. This an early one similar to Norjak,, 3400 miles.. 1200 miles to the Mexican border, not sure which Airport was the closest for a 727 in 1971. https://www.museumofflight.org/exhibits-and-events/aircraft/boeing-727-022 Cooper believed the plane could make Mexico to refuel... or he wouldn't have made a demand that was impossible. Cooper had aviation experience so how could he get it so wrong.. He didn't. I believe he initially wanted the plane to fly dirty when the stairs were lowered in flight by the stew.. not dirty the entire way... that comms between Cooper, Tina and crew weren't clear. The Reno negotiations changed this plan. The plane would have easily made it to Mexico to refuel.. My point was that everybody uses the take off with airstairs down to infer or speculate on his LZ... Fact is, his first demand was airstairs lowered in flight and that should infer his initially planned LZ with other evidence. Based on the totality of evidence I am 100% convinced Cooper initially when boarding the plane wanted to and planned to jump further south than he did.. that he changed his plan and wanted to jump ASAP.

There is NO evidence for a "Portland" area DZ,,, (pre Reno accepted) none. The points against Portland/PNW are.. Clothing,, Cooper wasn't dressed for a PNW jump in that weather/terrain. His initial demand was Mexico, non stop. He believed the plane could make Mexico,,, I have a theory on why that was incorrect. He was described as swarthy latin part native/Mexican. He rejected US airports for being being too large for refuelling before accepting Reno,, there is no reason to do this unless he thought he was going to be on the plane when it landed.. if his initially planned LZ was the "Portland/PNW" area the size if the refuelling airport is irrelevant. Cooper gave no directions, his jump spot was not planned. The plane could have been far East or West.. Other than heading South he did not know where he was jumping. Portland and the PNW is the scene of the crime, it would be safer to jump as far away as possible. IMO, Cooper initially wanted to jump further south, lower stairs in flight and give specific instructions to his LZ later in the air. When Reno came into play he changed his plan to jump ASAP and not be on the plane when it landed in Reno. He changed his plan... that is one reason this case is so difficult.

Maybe, but I bet he got it from somebody else.. but I have done extensive research on it for about 2 years. I told a few people including Tom K long ago.. Cooper's initial demands were airstairs lowered in flight... that is documented and confirmed in multiple places. That was his initial plan. FACT Airstairs lowered on take off came from Reno negotiations with crew. FACT Therefore, the airstairs lowered on takeoff does NOT indicate or influence his original planned LZ.. People use the airstairs lowered in flight to indicate his planned LZ,,, Cooper changed his plan due to Reno... The extension of that is because Cooper initially wanted airstairs lowered in flight then he could have wanted to jump further south... but what evidence is there that he wanted to jump further south,,, well there are a few things. If you look at it there is no evidence that Cooper INITIALLY wanted to jump in the PNW.. The PNW jump came from the Reno negotiation and his change of plan.

Totally disagree on Cooper's intended jump zone... Fact is.. his initial demand was airstairs lowered in flight. That is absolutely clear from the files and changes everything. It tells us his initial intent. Airstairs lowered on takeoff came up during the Reno negotiations. The crew was trying to get Tina off the plane and suggested locking half way which wasn't possible. This aspect is completely misunderstood by almost everyone. The tornado theory was mine, I shared the basic idea with a few people and have been working on it for years but it is far too extensive and detailed to post on a forum..

Maybe Cooper removed the tie to wipe his prints.. the door, inter-phone, stair control handle and the seat armrests... They look like wood,, maybe and an ashtray, and the end cap... is it Aluminum alloy or SS?

I think that map isn't actually yellow.. but in a yellow sleeve or laminated..

No

Happy birthday NORJAK...

Problem is silt is smaller than diatoms... How do you get diatoms on the money but not silt,,, and silt is in the sand

I noticed lots of these particles on the tie and posted this a year ago... 95% AL 5% MG

Today's secret word is.. Magnalium

The smears may be from wiping prints in the plane or using the tie on the rear stair control to hide prints.. Aluminum Magnesium (5%) alloys are used in airplanes

Thanks,, The opening up would be between the rubber bands near the outside and the paper band center right. If the center was completely open that empty spot on the center right would have diatoms.. it doesn't. So, that must have been where the paper band was... I can't think of any other explanation, can you.

There is an area right of center with no diatoms,, that is where the paper band would be.. paper bands aren't always dead center. There is no other way to explain the lack of diatoms there.

Even the Columbia River sand has a small amount of silt... Brian did say the money was black,, was that mold or ???

Technically silt is very small particles,, like a powder or dust.. sediment may contain silt but doesn't necessarily. So, what does Tom mean by silt??

The Columbia River has low levels of silt and the sand has silt... So, what the silt is going on... Did Tom mean low levels of silt or NO silt AT ALL..