FLYJACK

Give up.. You need to post the source, the location, the time/date, the wind direction and speed at elevation that you claim.. You have never done that because it doesn't exist, the data is not as precise as you claim.. even Tom said that the wind was more Southerly than thought... the FBI later revised its info to say it was more Southerly.. The wind was shifting between about SSE and SSW even in the balloon data... but there is no actual data for the area and time that Cooper jumped.. You are making claims with a precision that is not expressed in the data...

I am not going to play this stupid game,, I have the data... You know that. You need to show me proof of what you claim.. no more of your nonsense. The reason you won't show it is because it doesn't indicate what you claim..

The tight interior of a plane doesn't give you the normal proportional structures to evaluate a person height... bigger seats, lower ceiling, shorter doors, dimmer lights.. seated.. Think it through.. nobody took a measuring tape to Cooper during the hijacking.. people usually use other known objects to evaluate height. Banks put a measurement beside the door to get an accurate height for robbers. All witnesses were later asked to recall his height, what do they pull during recall.. an impression, not a measurement.. and studies show that people use things like age, dress, build, race to form an impression. Often witnesses just pick an assumed average height based on that impression.. They don't actually remember the height. It is an impression based on many factors. Recall is completely different from looking at somebody and coming up with a height. Nothing is certain but the bias for recall is to over estimate height inside a plane.. The only thing we can use for Cooper is that he was taller in shoes than Tina... so how tall was Tina exactly? I have been looking at weight.. and build. It seems that Cooper's weight and build suggest he was at the lower end of the height range rather than the high end.. but people weighed less back in 1971.. and were on average an inch shorter than today.. In the 60's the average American male was 5' 8" today 5' 9"... I don't think we have enough info to narrow down Cooper's height with any certainty.. Since the FBI used 5' 8" as the lower bound for suspects (reported height) and I can't see any argument otherwise,, I'll go with that.. though IMO, close to 5' 10" in shoes is the sweet spot. It fits the weight and build as well. and the FBI on occasion went below 5' 8" for compelling suspects...

I asked many times for you to show me your data and you never do... I have the data... I am asking for you to show me your data.. because it doesn't say what you think it does. The wind was shifting and the balloon data does not say what you claim. There are balloon measurement and forecasts... A balloon is sent up 2x per day and can drift hundreds of miles and even land within a few hours.. That balloon could have been hundreds of miles away from Cooper's jump location when he jumped... A forecast isn't necessarily accurate. The data I just posted is measurements at the airport, Weather Underground is the same. On ground winds, you are correct ground isn't elevation. However, in the balloon data for the two locations the measurement for ground direction was very close to direction at elevation. The difference was speed increased at elevation.. So, we can use ground wind as a proxy for direction at elevation. It wasn't always exact but very close. So, show me your data and prove me wrong.. My point is that the wind was shifting back and forth between SSE and SSW throughout the day in the area,, and there is no actual data for Cooper's jump location and time.. In other words, the wind direction Cooper encountered when he jumped could have been anywhere between SSE snd SSW... You are claiming a level of precision that does not exist. The weather underground data looks the same but in a different format.. https://www.wunderground.com/history/daily/KPDX/date/1971-11-24 Measured ground wind Portland at 7PM SE.. at 10PM SSW...

Not sure how accurate this site is, historical weather for Portland. Nov 24 1971 Portland at 8-8:30 PM no precipitation, very light precip at 9 PM. Temp was 45 deg. Ground wind was from the South but shifting slightly through the day and from SE at 7PM to SSW at 10PM.. Weather data showed the data for the direction of ground wind was very similar at elevation but speed increased at elevation. Temp was 45 deg. If accurate for Portland at least.. there was was no precipitation when Cooper jumped and wind was more from the South, not the West.. https://weatherspark.com/h/d/757/1971/11/24/Historical-Weather-on-Wednesday-November-24-1971-in-Portland-Oregon-United-States

You are correct... they don't need to apologize and I am not claiming Cooper had to be under 5' 10" but that a suspect reported under 5' 10" can't be discounted solely based on height.. Olemiss had previously claimed many times Cooper could not be under 5' 10"..

You need to put it the context of Cooper during the hijacking.. Did you hijack a plane? I am 5' 10" in shoes but have never been called 5' 7".. The witnesses range had Cooper from 5' 9".. would two male witnesses estimate a guy who is actually 6 feet as only 5' 9".. the bias is to overstate height. Witness height recall estimates are not that accurate.. witnesses use cues like body shape, race, age and presence to estimate age.. when they lack a comparison object they rely on overall impression during recall.. nobody measured Cooper's height. That isn't the same as somebody standing next to you and guessing your height. Reported heights in passports or DLs are self reported and usually do not include shoes.. So a suspect with a DL height of say 5' 9" would be 1-2" taller in shoes.. That is probably one of the reasons the FBI used 5' 8" as the lower bound.. So, if the FBI used 5' 8" for suspects unless somebody knows something they didn't I'll go with that..

Yes you did, you can't take criticism so you had to claim I got the Flo thing wrong to hit back.. I didn't get it wrong,, you misrepresented what I said to try to discredit me.. you have done it before. It is your MO. I don't care if you have a different opinion, you can't back it up, you have no argument.. If the FBI used 5' 8" as the lower band, what do you know that they didn't ,, Answer,, NOTHING,, your opinion has no merit, might as well just make everything up out of thin air. Ironically, you initially claimed you agreed with the FBI but in reality it is the FBI that you disagree with not me..

What does that have to do with the Cooper case. Are you 5' 10" in shoes? If so you are within Tina's range but Olemiss would eliminate you based based on Tina's estimate... yes, it makes no sense. Cooper was seated almost the entire time. Male witnesses had Cooper from 5' 9" The FBI used 5' 8" as a lower bound for reported suspect heights,, Self reported heights are 1-2" less than in shoes.. Why is this so hard to grasp...

I don't care if you get the height wrong. You just run with that. But, don't try to discredit me with your lies because you can't handle criticism.

The smaller space distorts perceptions vs outdoors or a big open space..... if you've flown on a similar sized plane you'd understand how tight it is. I recently flew to Tokyo and tried to estimate passenger heights and it was very difficult using physical references in the plane. Norjak had a luggage rack above Cooper's seat approximately 5' 5" so he could not stand straight up from the seat, he'd have to duck.. The rear bulkhead door was shorter than a normal door... average door height is 80 inches, the rear bulkhead door was 76"... People would appear taller going through that door,, This is an early 727-100 This would be 5' 9" 1.51m = 5' this 727 luggage rack is a different design. The Norjak rack was about 5" higher above the seats. The rear seat was removed for the sled test.

Big misfire, I didn't get anything wrong. You misunderstood. This is what I wrote and I was 100% correct.. I knew she checked him in but he wasn't drawing attention because he hadn't identified himself yet as the hijacker. "When Flo wrote 6' 1" in cockpit she had only seen Cooper seated after he had passed her the note and identified himself as a hijacker." Thanks for misrepresenting my comment and trying to discredit me.. and you are wrong because the FBI used 5' 8" as the lower bound.. and you have frequently stated Cooper was not under 5' 10".. What do you know that the FBI doesn't? That is rhetorical, I know the answer..

What does that even mean. Do you even understand what you are saying... We are comparing two entirely different datasets,, Self reported heights without shoes vs witness estimate ranges with shoes.. Some dude 6' in shoes could self report as 5' 10/11" ... Do you not understand.. Your range of 5' 10" - 6' in shoes would usually be reported as 1-2" less or potentially 5' 8" to 5'10" If a suspect was self reported as 5' 9" they would be in your range in shoes... but you have rejected,, You have to expand the range to account for self reporting variations. You got this wrong and are conflating two different datasets, the FBI used 5' 8" as the lower bound for suspects reported height. That is a fact.

Just not convinced.. perhaps you fail to recognize the flaw in your argument. It isn't a 4" difference, 6' is a two inch difference.. Somebody reported as 5' 8" or 5' 9" would be 5' 10" in shoes.. Tina estimated 5' 10" - 6' ... that is a range. Cooper could have been my height plus shoes = 5' 10" and be within Tina's range but you have already rejected based on Tina, that doesn't make any sense... I am 5' 10" in average shoes but have reported my height as 5' 8"... my DL had 5' 8" rounded down until I decided to round up to 5' 9", but that doesn't include shoes.. Both passport and DL is self reported.. So, that is a delta of up to 2 inches... due to rounding and shoes. My research showed that draft cards back then were self reported and filled out by an official, unless somebody can find otherwise. The physical which occurs later is precise and the official military record for the individual, not the draft card. Most draft cards did not use fractions.. usually people round up or down.. and passports are self reported and do not include fractions. Decades ago you had a physical at the Dr, and got your height without shoes.. that was your height and used for self reporting, people didn't add in shoe height. Some might have exaggerated height for some personal reason but it wasn't common. I know Flo checked Cooper in but she did not know he was hijacking the plane at that time. Her recall is therefore less reliable,, You are applying too much accuracy to the witness estimates. I'll agree a safe assumption is that Cooper was taller in shoes than Tina but how tall was Tina exactly? We know her passport shows 5' 8" self reported and Al Lee said she was 5' 6"... Witness estimates did start at 5' 9" with shoes.. You have previously stated that Cooper couldn't be under 5' 10",, what does that even mean? in shoes? If so you have to deduct 1-2 inches for self reported height variation without shoes or rounding.. You are assuming a precision that isn't there. Bottom line, the FBI used 5' 8" lower bound for suspects reported heights as the lower bound.. Take the witness estimates and deduct 1-2" to compare to self reported height records for suspects. I'll go with the FBI on this.

Nope. If you claim the FBI got it right then you would be claiming Cooper was 5' 8" plus.. The FBI used 5' 8" as the lower bound for suspects and occasionally going lower for compelling suspects.. So, you actually disagree with the FBI... The height thing is one of the most misunderstood things in this case.. and people seem to take unwarranted and over confident positions.. Things to consider,,, Suspect height recall for witnesses is not that accurate. Nobody actually measured Cooper's height. The inside of an aircraft can distort perceptions of height. When Flo wrote 6' 1" in cockpit she had only seen Cooper seated after he had passed her the note and identified himself as a hijacker. Tina said Cooper was seated almost the entire time. We know he stood up briefly in her presence, how close?. Outside the plane, Al Lee claimed Tina was 5' 6".. Tina's passport says 5' 8".. women tend to exaggerate their height, I assume Tina is 5' 8" and Al Lee's estimate shows how inaccurate estimating can be. Flo said Rataczak told the her to remove their shoes.. no indication if any stews actually did. The initial official Cooper description lower bound was 5' 9" then amended to 5'10" to overweight Tina's testimony.. because she saw Cooper standing. The FBI was over relying on Tina, right or wrong. Bill Mitchell and Robert Gregory had Cooper at 5' 9" though Cooper was seated. Men are more accurate estimating another man's height than women are. and when people read notations of height for people (for example passport or draft card) it is almost always self reported and doesn't include shoes. That and Tina's height are probably why the FBI went as low as 5' 8"... Somebody listed at 5' 8" somewhere could be 5' 9" in shoes.. If Tina was 5' 8" she could have been 5' 8.5" in those shoes.. Also, self reporting on things like passports and draft cards usually does not include fractions.. people round up or down or concatenate. I am exactly 5' 8 3/4" bare foot.. in most shoes I am 5' 10".. I would claim my height was 5' 8" or sometimes 5' 9" on documents dropping or rounding the fraction.. So, we have variables under stating peoples recorded heights on one side and variables impacting witness estimates on the other... Cooper's initial description by the FBI was 5' 9" to 6' incorporating Mitchell and Gregory.. IMO, the sweet spot is 5'10" plus or minus and inch in shoes. An individual's recorded height could be an inch or so less if without shoes.. Point is, these are witness recall estimates with variables and individual heights are usually under reported.. without shoes. Comparing apples and oranges.

Disagree completely.. the ham operator comment was vague and not accurate or conculsive. Here in the Harrison notes is the same time reference. 04:25 - 04:30 = 8:25-8:30 "Reno looks good" matches and asking stew to communicate with man (before landing).. she is not talking to Cooper. Here at 8:30 Soderlind was asking for the stew to try to contact Cooper... She was NOT talking to Cooper.

Checking the Epstein list for DB Cooper...

Yup, the description is wrong.... Emerick doesn't make sense though.. beside the description being wrong he didn't even know one was a dummy chute, how would he know the colour of the chute or shroud colour. The exterior description could have been noted by somebody handling them before they went to Cooper,, but not the chute and shroud colour, model number and length unless they were opened. (even that is a stretch) My sense is that some information is missing perhaps due to the early chaos... Either some of that chute info came from Cossey earlier and wasn't noted in the files or somebody opened the chutes. That info was not gleaned from the packing card... Somebody had to have thoroughly inspected the chute.. What if the dummy was intentional, they could have put a bleeper in it.. that chute was the only one with no seal. Somebody opens the unsealed dummy, notes the inside description and puts a bleeper in... they wouldn't want to admit in the files to intentionally supplying a dummy chute. either that or they contacted Cossey earlier than reported.

This is why I am skeptical about the accuracy of the early description of Cooper's back chute.. it may be a conflation of descriptions indicated by the 28 ft error. 5:57 AM on the 25th, there is a duplicate at 5:10 AM, Where did this detailed description for both front chutes come from.. Cossey? or ??... Cossey claimed he was contacted when the plane landed in Reno, but there is no record in the files of contact with Cossey until the afternoon of the 25th.. Unless that description came from somebody else but who would know the chute colour and the shroud colour unless it was opened before being given to Cooper.

I already posted an image, 1 of the envelops and the two pill boxes..

This is the only mention of transmitters in the chutes,, I found that the FBI was using them around that time... but obviously no confirmation that they were used for Norjak. The file about picking up a signal was very early on in the FBI dump,, FBI Part 11 p 332/3

No, not Cooper's transmitter, a transmitter planted by the FBI in a chute.. The only reference was somebody claiming no transmitters were placed in the chutes as far as they knew.. or something like that.

Not resolved.. just left like most Cooper issues.. unknown

It was fairly early in the files,,, They claimed no "beepers" in the chutes... but who knows Those 1971 era transmitters did "Beep" for about 24 hours.. The other thing is that there were two Aluminum plants.. The Reynolds plant was not West of Vancouver... that was the ALCOA plant. Reynolds was near Troutdale. When I brought this up years ago nobody seemed interested.

Old file previously release, been discussed..