Can wingloading be too low?

[Pubwoof 0]

I've been pondering what I should get as my next canopy for some time. Right now, I'm jumping a Spectre 150 at a 1.26 loading and am still enjoying it. When I'm ready to get a new canopy in about another 100 jumps or so (maybe even longer), I was thinking of going to a higher performance 9-cell design (Crossfire2, Stilletto, Lotus/Samurai, or something similar), but without downsizing. I was thinking of doing this as a percaution against biting off more than I can chew, but also because downsizing would mean a new container for me which I'd rather not replace now if I don't have to. Anyway, virtually all of the canopies I'd otherwise be interested in recommend minimum wingloadings of 1.3 or more, which would put me just below the recommended range. Any ideas on how these types of canopies perform when the wingloading is too low? I guess if I really needed to, I could eat more carbs and push my exit weight up, but I'd like to know what I might be in for if I underload a canopy (if there is such a thing).

The glass isn't always half-full OR half-empty. Sometimes, the glass is just too damn big.

[MikeFB2764 0]

Yes, wing loading can be too low. Just as manufacturers specify max wing loads, they also can specify min wingloads. This upper and lower bounds are the operating range for that particular size canopy. Going outside of these bounds could mean that you will not get the optimal performance out of that size canopy.

Just as overloading a canopy is not good (for obvious reasons), underloading is not good either. The canopy may not perform as described by the manufacturer as there is not enough suspended wieght..

When in doubt, always refer to the manufacturers guidelines and if those guidelines do not give you the information that you need, you should contact the manufacturer to get more information.

As for your container, I would not worry about that too much. As long as you are not drastically downsizing (which it sounds like you wouldnt be), the canopy will always fill the bag.

[skycat 0]

I've jumped a crossfire1 and crossfire2 @ 1.2, a Stilleto at 1.3, and a Cobalt @ 1.1.

No issues with any of them.
Currently at 1.2-1.3 (depends on lead) a Crossfire1.

Fly it like you stole it!

[marks 0]

Quote

I've been pondering what I should get as my next canopy for some time. Right now, I'm jumping a Spectre 150 at a 1.26 loading and am still enjoying it. When I'm ready to get a new canopy in about another 100 jumps or so (maybe even longer), I was thinking of going to a higher performance 9-cell design (Crossfire2, Stilletto, Lotus/Samurai, or something similar), but without downsizing. I was thinking of doing this as a percaution against biting off more than I can chew, but also because downsizing would mean a new container for me which I'd rather not replace now if I don't have to. Anyway, virtually all of the canopies I'd otherwise be interested in recommend minimum wingloadings of 1.3 or more, which would put me just below the recommended range. Any ideas on how these types of canopies perform when the wingloading is too low? I guess if I really needed to, I could eat more carbs and push my exit weight up, but I'd like to know what I might be in for if I underload a canopy (if there is such a thing).

you shouldnt have a problem going to a higher performance canopie at a 1.3wing loading from where your at......

but then again i dont watch your landings..... ask around your dz to some pilots and the instructors...

you may not get "optimal" performance...

but that doesnt mean you wont get very good performance from it...

[174fps 1]

Is your profile up to date?
just over 100 jumps and you want an elliptical?
even 100 jumps more is not enough to fully learn the canopy you are flying at the moment.
have you jumped at different DZ's with different elevations? downhill ? crosswind?
Do a search on Bill Von to get his canopy skill requirements.
Are you using all the inputs(toggle, riser, body) to fly?
Higher performance is much more a function of the
PILOT than the canopy.
PD recommends min 500 jumps before getting a Stiletto.
At 100 jumps you look back and say " look how much I've learned"
at 500 jumps you look ahead and say " look how much more I have to learn"

have fun
Andrew

[dgskydive 0]

I agree with you. With a hundred jumps you shouldn't really think about an ellpitcal at this point. You are alread jumping a wingloading that must manufactures would consider for experts anyway. If you are still having fun with the canopy you already have then stay on it for a long time. When the day comes that you no longer are able to surprise your self then think about downsizing or getting a more HP canopy. I think yo are thinking right when you want to go to HP but the same size. Just way to early! Go and read pg 9 of this months Parachutist, letter titled "Stupidity and Misery". Don't be that guy!

Dom

[Pubwoof 0]

Well, I'll have at least a couple hundred jumps by the time I might be ready to change planeforms, maybe even longer. I have serious doubts as to the wisdom of jumping anything outside the manufacturer's prescribed range for wingloading, and will likely end up with something in the midrange 9-cell category just to stay within the manufacturer's range. More out of curiosity than anything else, I wanted to get a better idea as to how an underloaded canopy would fly. Would the flare be weak? Would the openings be too hard? Easier/harder to stall?

To answer your questions, I've jumped at 3 DZs plus WFFC'03, all below 1,000ft elevation. I have spent a lot of time using all control inputs, including harness inputs and every combination of front/rear risers both in and out of half-brakes. I've landed crosswind/downwind, with rear risers, and in high winds with virtually no forward movement. I've done some full altitude hop-n-pops including some "non-contact" CRW, which helped me a lot. Don't worry, I wouldn't be allowed to jump anything my DZO thought I wasn't ready for anyway.

Blue Ones

The glass isn't always half-full OR half-empty. Sometimes, the glass is just too damn big.

[AlanRussell 0]

Have a look at the education articles on PD's website if you haven't already.

I think that the minimum loading for all PD's canopies is quoted as varying with landing conditions (lighter loads being more likely to be adversely affected by higher winds).

I don't think that being able to jump in higher winds is a reason to downsize in itself however. If you downsize, you have to be ready to go faster in every way, all of the time.

[174fps 1]

Alan hows it going?
Getting to be a while since we did those jumps in that
"wonderful" Scottish weather.

To Pubwoof why would you want to underload an elliptical

that's like buying a ferrari and just using it to drive to the
grocery store.



Andrew

[dgskydive 0]

***Well, I'll have at least a couple hundred jumps by the time I might be ready to change planeforms, maybe even longer

Make it longer!

Dom

[sducoach 0]

Go ask Mark and Gary........

Blues,

J.E.

James 4:8

[Kolla 0]

Actually, the only canopy PD posts minimums for is the Velocity - and even for that canopy the minimums are very low (exit weight to be equal or greater than the squarefootage of the Velocity).
Other PD canopies don't have minimums.

I'm sure the gang at Archway will keep you safe and make sure you jump canopies appropriate for your skill level - but maybe you can talk them into letting you jump a student canopy - just for the heck of it. A big one, that you would be loading lightly.
You know, I'll even send you a Navigator 280 to play with if you want to give it a try (I run the demo program at PD)
I know your question is serious, and I'm not trying to be funny - but it's can be quite an experience to jump student canopies once you have a couple of hundred jumps under your belt - and if you ever plan on becoming a coach or an instructor I think it's very valuable
Blue ones!
Kolla

Blue Skies Magazine

[Pubwoof 0]

Quote

To Pubwoof why would you want to underload an elliptical

that's like buying a ferrari and just using it to drive to the
grocery store.



Andrew

You're probably right about the Ferrari. But, if I ever got a Ferrari one day, I wouldn't drive it on a race track until after I've had it to the store a couple of times first. The main reason the idea occured to me was because I could theoretically increase performance without downsizing. I'll have to get another container when I downsize, but I'd like to put it off if I can because I like the one I have. I also don't want my first ride on an elliptical to be my first ride with a higher wingloading either. After seeing that my current wingloading might not be sufficient to fly an elliptical, I just wanted to hear about the potential downsides.

Thanks for the advice all.

The glass isn't always half-full OR half-empty. Sometimes, the glass is just too damn big.