Backflying the Ghost?

[Buffdiver 0]

So here is my problem:
Last season I put over 100 jumps on my Phantom and towards the end was feeling extremely comfortable on my back. I had my fall fate down as low or lower than our normal flocking speeds. I had the back inlets on this suit and it seemed to inflate very well on its back.

The CO crew all got our new Ghosts last month and I felt the transition to backflying would be pretty easy considering the time spent on my back in the Phantom. This is not the case. I feel as though I am starting the entire learning process over again. Am I doing something wrong or is it just going to take jump #'s on this suit to get it dialed again?

Also, the Ghost does not seem to inflate nearly as well as the Phantom did on its back. The only thing I really feel pressurizing is the Pooch of extra fabric on the belly section of the suit.(see attached pic). Is this a design issue with the inlets or just by bad body position. I would appreciate any input from experienced backflying pilots or people with more experience with this particular suit. Thanks.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "Is this a design issue with the inlets or just by bad body position. "
.........................................

You look to be flying in a reverse aerofoil position and are basically in a stalled flying position. ie too butt down,head up .
To max out on your back you will need to adopt a more heavily arched position butt-up,head down, ie opposite to the de-arched (butt-up ) possy if you were flying face-to-earth.

[LouDiamond 1]

Jordan, you need to push your hips up more and tension the wings(arms and leg) of the suit more, extend/spread them and push them down against the wind. You are basically in a lazy position in the photo which is often times used/seen by those flying the camera slot from below

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Buffdiver 0]

I know this pic does not show the most optimal backflying position. I mostly posted it to show the inflation on my back.

I had the same issue when learning on the Phantom. I used to fly a bit "ass low", but over time developed an efficient de-arched position. I guess I am just frustrated because I spent so many jumps dialing it in and just when i finally got it.....bam...back to square one. I am always up for the challenge though. Thanks for all your input.

[PhoenixRising 0]

It also looks like the suit is really baggy in the belly area. It could possibly not fit you as well, also try arching harder and look in front of you so you cannot see the flockers above you. this will force you to arch and give you more lift. Learn the position and then learn to look up without changing the rest of your body and you will be able to look around without it affecting your flying. But it is hard to learn from an internet forum. he best thing you can do is just go out and get a lot of jumps on that suit and it will come naturally. No suit is plug and play, especially the larger surface area suits.

Justin Shorb
Flock U

Wingsuit organizing, first flight courses and coaching
Flock University
Tonysuits

[Buffdiver 0]

You mentioned the suit not fitting properly. All of us guys (6 of us) were measured at the same time by one of the PF reps here and all of our suits tend to have the baggy "pooch" in the belly. We didn't really notice it until I saw some shots of me on my back. Is this something to be concerned about such as having the suits brought in around the waist??

Thanks Scott. Now that you mention it " you need to push your hips up more and tension the wings(arms and leg) of the suit more, extend/spread them and push them down against the wind." This is how I remember finally flying on the last few jumps on the old suit. Ill keep plugging away at it.

[LouDiamond 1]

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Is this something to be concerned about such as having the suits brought in around the waist??

Without seeing your suit (besides in the picture) it's hard to say but I am inclined to say that once you correct your body position you will see your suits inflation profile change and that pooch disappear. I am assuming whom ever measured all of you might have given you a tad extra room in that area for cold weather clothing and or post holiday expansion. Best bet is to ask the person who measured you if thats the case or not.

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This is how I remember finally flying on the last few jumps on the old suit. Ill keep plugging away at it.

Give that a try and see if it works for you and feels more familiar. Try to over exaggerate the correct position as this usually tends to put you in the correct position when you have the wind resistance on your back ( See my icon for an example).

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[Buffdiver 0]

So still perfecting the correct position. My friend taking these pics says its the best I have flown on my back on this suit. (still room for improvement) The "pooch" i mentioned before is still there even with a more De-arched position. Is this bagginess affecting my flight or is it just add 20 pounds to my Physique in pics. Not worried about the look but more concerned with my efficiency on my back. Also, The wings still seem to lack inflation on its back. I can't imagine how a better body position would increase this to how it inflates when flying belly-to-earth. thanks for the input.

[Buffdiver 0]

By the way... here is a funny pic I came across tonight. This is my 2nd flight on my old Phantom and My 1st attempt at backflying.

[mccordia 73]

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( See my icon for an example).

Scott, If I may criticize your icon, your backfly position seems to be too overstretched. Chest completely pointing up/arms and legs pushed too far down. Just being flat is all you need to do to fly well on your back. Overstretching tends to cause a more floaty/wobbly backflying.

Look at Jeff in videos, his relaxed backflying position, just 'hanging' in the wings is what Id recommend to people learning to fly on their back.

The arms/legs should never be pushed beyond/beneath your torso (besides short stints of heavy upfloating). Just having them besides your body, or even slighly up (just like a lazy flying position on your belly) works better. Especially in the beginning.

Just like bellyflight, pushing your arms and legs down to much (into a de-arch so to speak) can cause stalling, and all the wobbly side-effects coupled to that.

Just focus on backflying a lazy position, with partialy closed legwing in the beginning. As you learn to fly that one stable on on-heading, slowly build up the amount you open the legwing.

If you see your own feet while trying to backfly, you are most likely bending at the waist, usually causing massive diving (and turning if that position is not symetrical)

Im working on a more in depth article on backflying (which in terms of position, doesnt differ too much per suit).

Jeff, with your approval, Ill also be mailing the article to you for some thoughts/ideas/additions..

The number one rule for backflying> be relaxed...(in other words..dont forget to smile)

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[mccordia 73]

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By the way... here is a funny pic I came across tonight. This is my 2nd flight on my old Phantom and My 1st attempt at backflying.

The other pic looks mighty sweet in terms of body position.
And that phantom pic is how most people (me included) start.

As described in the post before, its the bend at the waist, and looking at your toes that tends to F* it up most often...stretch...relax..and fly it like a lazy boy

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[Buffdiver 0]

Thanks Jarno,

The bigger wings of the Ghost definitely added some difficulty to the flight. As you said, I finally relaxed on this flight and was able to achieve some decent fall retes. SM1 flyers seem to have so much wing area that they can fly in the lazy boy position that i originally posted but can still slow up enough to stay with the flock. I am still wondering about the inflation of the wings though.

I absolutely love PF suits. My question is with how inflation has to deal with fall rate. You look at pics of SM1s and they are solidly inflated on belly and back. S-flys dont necessarily inflate but footage has shown that these suits perform just as well or better than the competition when terrain flying.

Does the pressurizations of the wings really affect the fall rate or is it just the drag of the material out that slows you down?

[mccordia 73]

Inflation mostly helps in taking pressure of your arms and legs..

Though lots of drag due to flapping material can make stable flight a bit more difficult..

Pointing toes also helps in keeping the legwing nice and tight..

JC
FlyLikeBrick
I'm an Athlete?

[LouDiamond 1]

Jordan, that looks a lot better all around. I wouldn't worry about the stomach inflation on the suit. I see what you mean by the arms, it does appear in the photo that they are not as fully inflated as I have seen on some back vented suits. however, the picture is one moment in time on that whole flight. Do they stay that way the whole time you are on your back? Good job overall on improving your body position into a more efficient position.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[LouDiamond 1]

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Scott, If I may criticize your icon, your backfly position seems to be too overstretched. Chest completely pointing up/arms and legs pushed too far down. Just being flat is all you need to do to fly well on your back. Overstretching tends to cause a more floaty/wobbly backflying.

In the original series of pictures, it is more apparent that I am very flat. On suits with no back vents, it is more critical and requires more physical input to not only fly efficiently but to achieve the proper body position than a suit with back vents. Flying lazy or relaxed works well if your filming or just under a flock gawking. If you want max backflying performance, correct body position and presentation of the wings must be done. When done correctly it is far from floaty or wobbly, in fact most will find that they once they find their sweet spot that not only is the forward speed fast, they also have similar if not better performance on their backs than on their bellies. Like anything in skydiving, you have to fly your body to the situation in which you find yourself, in order to be where you need to be in space be it flying relaxed/sloppy or maxed out. However, it always pays to spend the extra time to learn how to fly the most efficient way and then the rest is gravy after that.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING