Safety violations, what's next?

[rwieder 0]

You know damn well he was using the 45° rule, not counting before exit. I can't recall how many heated discussions I've had with others about this same topic.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[coreyangel 0]

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You know damn well he was using the 45° rule, not counting before exit. I can't recall how many heated discussions I've had with others about this same topic.

May I ask, how do we know he was using the 45 degree rule? Did we ask? Maybe he counted fast or not long enough. You mentioned that you have had some heated discussions on this topic, would you care to share one?

Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

[hookitt 0]

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You know damn well he was using the 45° rule, not counting before exit. I can't recall how many heated discussions I've had with others about this same topic.

Wrong ... the jumper wasn't doing anything but succumbing to pressure from people behind yelling go and just left the aircraft too soon.



coreyangel, that's a good question but in this case a rating made no difference. This is a dropzone I jump at only a few times a year. Our first conversation was right then after we landed.

He landed behind the beer line and was approached about it by one of the locals. I walked up and he was clearly sheepish. The local asked if anything was wrong and I said not at all and asked if I could take over from here.

Our very first conversation was as good as could be hoped for. He'd been doing a bunch of solos with out a lot of guidance. Later after jumping he handed me a beer and introduced himself formally.

Hope that helps

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[coreyangel 0]

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You know damn well he was using the 45° rule, not counting before exit. I can't recall how many heated discussions I've had with others about this same topic.

Wrong ... the jumper wasn't doing anything but succumbing to pressure from people behind yelling go and just left the aircraft too soon.



coreyangel, that's a good question but in this case a rating made no difference. This is a dropzone I jump at only a few times a year. Our first conversation was right then after we landed.

He landed behind the beer line and was approached about it by one of the locals. I walked up and he was clearly sheepish. The local asked if anything was wrong and I said not at all and asked if I could take over from here.

Our very first conversation was as good as could be hoped for. He'd been doing a bunch of solos with out a lot of guidance. Later after jumping he handed me a beer and introduced himself formally.

Hope that helps

Hookitt, this string has shown something that I think happens more often than we as a community will admit. When something goes wrong, I feel that more often than not, people will jump to a conclusion and assume it is a fact. As we see can see in the above chain of events, someone made an error. If we would have tried to address the situation as someone using the 45 degree rule, we never would have taught this young skydiver a thing and this could have repeated itself. Would anyone like to comment on this? What do you you all think?

Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

[jlmiracle 7]

In the beginning of my skydiving career, i cut off a porter on landing. This was a new/visiting airplane that could land before all the canopies (which I was not used to).

The DZO came over and asked me if I saw the plane, I said "no", he told me what I did, I apologized to DZO and Porter Pilot (who was really really cool about it).

I have not cut off any more airplanes in the last 15 years.

Lesson learned: Not all aircraft descend slower than my canopy.

j


J

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "You said that you were grounded and there was no discussion. May I ask, did they try to teach you what went wrong or did you have to figure that part out for yourself? "
..............................

I was grounded (a couple of times) for hook turning . The CI just said not to do it. This was on a F111 7cell 230. Slow motion compared to today but still heaps of fun.

Got grounded by a good friend on his first official day as SO, by dumping at 1000' on the last load of the weekend at the end of a two week training camp.
He apologised as he grounded me.
People might not realise how low people used to regularly open. Above 2000' you were a dirty highpuller and not to be trusted .
I've watched many a 4ways turning points below 2000' and done it myself. this was before turbine aircraft were prevalent in the sport and we often only got 9500'.
We used to squeeze in as much freefall as we could .

We knew we shouldn't do it and when we got caught we got grounded...sometimes the whole team sometimes just the lowest puller.

They were right to ground us to maintain standards and perhaps save our lives. And yes we did work it out for ourselves eventually.
Funny thing, I saw the same CI that had grounded me a few times for hook turning, decades later grinning away in the company of the swoopers he was judging. Their swoopy splashy crashes made my graceful spirals and slow flares look tame .
Go figure

[rwieder 0]

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You know damn well he was using the 45° rule, not counting before exit. I can't recall how many heated discussions I've had with others about this same topic.
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Wrong ... the jumper wasn't doing anything but succumbing to pressure from people behind yelling go and just left the aircraft too soon.

That remark was meant in jest. I should have put some sort of icon next to it. Apologies.

-Richard-
"You're Holding The Rope And I'm Taking The Fall"

[coreyangel 0]

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You know damn well he was using the 45° rule, not counting before exit. I can't recall how many heated discussions I've had with others about this same topic.
----------------------------------------------
Wrong ... the jumper wasn't doing anything but succumbing to pressure from people behind yelling go and just left the aircraft too soon.

That remark was meant in jest. I should have put some sort of icon next to it. Apologies.

No problem

Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

[BillyVance 34]

One time I was on a 6 way that funneled around 5500 feet, leaving some girl roughly 20 feet directly below me. Instinct told me to watch her. I saw her grab her helmet with both hands, and then reach back for her pilot chute. Absolutely no warning. I had just enough time to go into instant tracking mode and she shot by less than 3 feet behind me.

Oh I was really pissed. When I landed, I griped about what happened to anyone within earshot on the way to the packing mat. Turns out she avoided me the rest of the day. It was that night after I'd calmed down and happened to see her face to face and we had a good talk. The short of it was she panicked because she felt her helmet coming loose and didn't want to lose it. I let it go at that point but I didn't jump with her again.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[BillyVance 34]

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In the beginning of my skydiving career, i cut off a porter on landing. This was a new/visiting airplane that could land before all the canopies (which I was not used to).

The DZO came over and asked me if I saw the plane, I said "no", he told me what I did, I apologized to DZO and Porter Pilot (who was really really cool about it).

I have not cut off any more airplanes in the last 15 years.

Lesson learned: Not all aircraft descend slower than my canopy.

j


J

I've been guilty of this as well. I cut Mike Mullins off one time when I had a two-out and basically was riding along with the wind. Landed on the grass runway. I had less than 100 jumps then.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[coreyangel 0]

Thanks for sharing Billy.

Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672

[JohnRich 4]

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I cut Mike Mullins off one time when I had a two-out and basically was riding along with the wind. Landed on the grass runway. I had less than 100 jumps then.

With a two-out malfunction, I'm sure he understood that your emergency took priority over his quick landing.

[coreyangel 0]

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I cut Mike Mullins off one time when I had a two-out and basically was riding along with the wind. Landed on the grass runway. I had less than 100 jumps then.

With a two-out malfunction, I'm sure he understood that your emergency took priority over his quick landing.

That is a good point, John. We akways talk about the mistakes we've made and how other's have almost killed us with their stupidity, but we also need to be on the watch out for others in distress. Sometimes awhat appears to be a safety violation could actually be another jumper making an emergency landing. Would anyone like to comment on this?

Learn from others' mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all yourself.
POPS 10672