The Great Lightning Myth

[Nullified 0]

Tonight at a party, I had what could be described as an argument with a freeflyer regarding landing Lightnings.

I know the Lightning has a bad rep regarding landings, but don't get it.

I've had several 'hard' landings, but these were the cases;

First jump on a Lightning, I face planted.

Once while borrowing a friends who had extra links on the rear risers, I stalled the thing when I flared.

And, anytime I'm the bottom guy landing a formation.

Aside from these situations, I've had consistently beautiful landings.

We had a CRW camp this year, and several of the participants consistently had very nice landings, and pretty much all of the instructors and coaches not only had nice landings, but several of them were getting some impressive swoops with their Lightnings.

So, I'm wondering, amongst you more experienced Dogs, what are your feelings about landing Lightnings??

Stay safe,
Mike

If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid.

[quack 0]

don't know why, but the 126 lands nicer than the 143.

Other than that you just have to fly the canopy until you've stopped. The problems I've seen with the landings on them is when people transition over from a sabre or some other better gliding canopy, and aren't familiar with a 7 cell. The person forgets that the 7 cell doesn't quite have the "finish" as a 9 cell.

But you have to understand, mental illness is like cholesterol. There is the good kind and the bad. Without the good kind- less flavor to life. - Serge A. Storms

[darkvapor 0]

Human lawn darts, baby! Lightnings certainly won't win any awards when it comes to graceful landings. In order to really get any sort of graceful landing, you really need to build up some airspeed with the front risers. On no wind days, they really don't have enough bottom end flare to bring you to a good stop. It seems that if you don't generate enough lift with the top part of your flare, you will either have to run fast, slide, or face plant.. There are certain tricks to landing them well. I think once you learn the tricks and technique, landing one becomes a lot easier. However, they are a lot less forgiving of poor technique when it comes to landing. They aren't dangerous, but just be prepared to get a bit dirty trying.

It's pretty weird. I've seen amazing crwdogs really have ugly Lightning landings, but I've also seen 1st time Lightning jumpers that have fairly nice landings.

[Shark 0]

Quote

There are certain tricks to landing them well.

Yep, jump a big Lightning.

[Nullified 0]

Well, that's the thing. I keep hearing about how badly they land, but for the most part, I see people landing them quite well...myself included.

I'm trying to figure out how these canopies have gotten such a bad rep.

Stay safe,
Mike

If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid.

[chuckbrown 0]

The sequential trim is nose high, so think of it like coming in for a landing in brakes, but not letting it fly before you flare. It's the same thing. If you don't pick up speed for the flare you go Boom. With a regular canopy when you let it fly it naturally picks up speed for a decent flare; the Lightnings have only so much "natural, i.e. no control input" forward speed, so you have to give it positive input to get up speed for an effective flare.

When I'm at my home DZ I fly with Triathlons, so I put an extra set of links on the rear risers so I don't float as much. That brings the nose down, so the canopy has a faster forward speed. Landings can be straight in no problem. But when I take on off the links to play with other Lightnings, I know what I have to do. Sometimes it's pretty, sometimes -- oh well, the rest of the dive was fun:)

Other than that Lightnings are the BEST canopy for CRW. Triathlons work well (I have one), but Lightnings are rock solid flying tanks.

[dragon2 0]

Hmm weird, I jump a Lightning 126 sequential. If I put extra links on the RR I kinda HAVE to wear 4 or 5 kg of lead to land it decently straight in, esp. with no wind. I seldom FR, I should get that down sometime tho, for these situations. But on a no-wind day I can land my seq Lightning (without extra links) straight in without crashing too hard (ie my ankles sting a bit after like 5 jumps in a row landing on the grass).

I jumped a rotation Lighting (126) for the first time last week, no lead, man that lands way better!

I always say, if people say a Lightning is hard to land: well, if I can do it, how hard can it be?

But then, I usually jump 7 cells, so I'm used to them.

The only canopy I could not land decently was a Diamant 160. I have only 3 jumps on one, with 4 kg of lead and on a hot no-wind day. First jump: crash. Second: hey! I'm standing up?! Third: ouch.
Definitely NOT my canopy. I should learn to hook one of those

But I must admit, first time CRw jumpers are fun to watch.... Over here you have to do 5 CRW jumps for your C. Meaning most jumpers who do their first CRW jumps are jumping a Stiletto or the like. Fun to watch them land a Lightning for the first time Although some manage just fine...

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Nullified 0]

I jump a brand new (~60 jumps with it now) 143, trimmed sequential that I'm loding at 1.33:1.

I've just recently started carving it in which makes the landings really easy, but for the most part, I've been landing it from straight in, full flight and I hadn't had any problems with it that way.

What I've found works for me is, initiate the flare a few feet higher than I would with my Sabre2, make it almost a stab of a flare down to a little beneath my shoulders, and then finish it with a smooth but quick (not a stab) motion, bringing my toggles to their full extension.

There's definitely less room for error with these canopies, but I have no complaints. I'm in love with my Lightning.

I like what Dragon2 said, "If I can land it...anyone can".

I think the people who consistently slam in have just accepted that it's going to happen and that's why it does.

Well, to all, safe and pleasent landings!

Mike

If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid.

[CRWBUDDHA 0]

Hummmmmmm,

One wonders if the Canopy has the knowledge of where the ground really is ..............perhaps the Canopy is really playing with the pilot........Boom Shaka Laka........or as the Dogs put it, ..................Sha.......wanga!!!!!! By the way, tide is alot cheaper than a ride to the local repair shop.......
CRWBUDDHA

[jrpayne 0]

I saw a few crew dogs down in dallas a few weeks ago doing very impressive landings with lightnings. They would do front riser turns together into sycronized swoops. It was very impressive.

[Nullified 0]

Quote

I saw a few crew dogs down in dallas a few weeks ago doing very impressive landings with lightnings. They would do front riser turns together into sycronized swoops. It was very impressive.

Yeah, I've seen Demolition CRW and a few others swooping them in. It's really cool to see a nice swoop under a Lightning!

I'm just getting sick of arguing with people at my DZ about Lightnings. It seems like the only time they see us land them is when we're landing a formation, and the last person dropped always pounds, so I'm being called a liar when I tell them that they do land just fine.

This is why I started this thread. I've only seen a handful of people with Lightnings, but they all have consistently nice...if not impressive...landings.
I was always told how badly they land, and what I've seen doesn't compute with what I've been told.
I want to know if Terrible landings really are the norm, or if these canopies have just somehow gotten a bum deal and why.
And again, I love my Lightning, including the landings. I don't know what all the bad-talking them is about.

Stay safe,
Mike

If you're gonna' be stupid, well, then you're most likely stupid.

[VectorBoy 0]

I flew a brand new Demo lightning and it landed beautiful. It wasn't that much different than any other ZP seven cell. I pounded in the first landing after the crew coach had me convinced I had to change my entire flare timing. But on all the landings after that I just went with instinct and was getting wonderful landings. Bare in mind it spanky new out of the bag. They say the shagged out ones land worse, I will go with my instinct next time. And I believe the shagged out lightnings land better with a different flare timing.

Some people have trouble landing any seven cell. Take reserves for example. The flare will be different on a reserve because you may be loading F-111 above 1:1 so the timing changes. But I have seen pro swoopers swoop their reserves.

[relyon 0]

Short lined Lightnings tend to exhibit the nasty landing tendencies but factory lined ones (the majority out there) land fine.

Bob