HeadUpFlying trying to "remove hands" looking for advice

[NWPoul 1]

Hi all
Just starting to learn FF this season (began with backtracking and now ~40 jumps work on headup flying)

Few expirienced guys here says that I am relying on my arms too much, and it's good if I'll be able to have my hands completly free (rely only on my legs), for docking, grips etc...
Yes I can feel significant "weihgt" on arms when I focused on it... so on one of the next jumps I went solo for practice to remove them from the realative wind... I was unable to do it , after some point (I bring my arms close to the rest of my "fuselage" keeping it with the line of shoulders) I start to lost stability with falling on my back so had to spread my arms...

Yes I try to "sit" in wide stance (probably not wide enough) and it's seems that I should arch in chest more (to rely on the wind by my back)
here some pic's of my sit position (not this jump)

Know that it's all the matter of practice but if some one could give me some tips/input it would be just great as well as any critique/corretions on my sit position will be gratefuly appreciated

Thanks and sorry for my english

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[jerry81 10]

Perhaps try straddling the air instead of sitting on it. Your stance seems wide enough- what you want to do now is bring the knees in slightly so you're kinda squeezing the relative wind, using the insides of your legs as control surface as well- get more drag below the waist and you'll be able to move your upper body more freely.

Once you get there, start doing exercises with your hands- touch them in front, touch them behind your back, bring one forward and one back, switch, take a pull-up cord with you and pass it from hand to hand... Try to feel how this affects your balance and focus on countering instability with inputs from your legs first. Once you can tie a knot in that pull-up cord in any position imaginable (in front of you, behind your back, behind your head, under each leg), you should be ready for head-up grips as well.

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[AggieDave 6]

Do my pullup chord dive.

Take a pullup chord with you in your hand, exit the plane in a sit. Now, pass that pullup chord back and forth between your hands without corking, without changing heading or getting too "hinky" with your body position.

It'll take a few jumps but you'll get it.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[hparrish 0]

I see nothing wrong with your arm postion at this point. You are doing beter than 75% or the population that leans forward and has their arms behind them. You need arms to sitfly but need to be able to bring them in closer to take clean docks. I don't think they are telling you to fly with no arms, just a little less arm. I don't know anyone who can sitfly with no arms out.

It is best to be able to sitfly with your arms closer in to your torso. Just bend them 90 degrees at the elbows to bring them in closer to your body.

Aggie Dave had excelent advice for jumping with a pullup cord. Thats an excellent excersize for flying with your torso and legs. Will get you to where you need to be with regard to taking docks and still flying down the tube.

Good Luck..........Looks like you are already flying very clean for you number of jumps.

Harry P

[NWPoul 1]

Quote

jerry81:
Perhaps try straddling the air instead of sitting on it. Your stance seems wide enough- what you want to do now is bring the knees in slightly so you're kinda squeezing the relative wind, using the insides of your legs as control surface as well- get more drag below the waist and you'll be able to move your upper body more freely.

Yep, I was told about it too, did try few times...(trying to fly like the Guy in "Learning to FF: Sitfly") but not very stable in it. I did spread may legs to open inside part of them but your input to sit wide and then bring the knees keeping feet pushing the air - seems very usefull, thanks;)

jerry81 & AggieDave :
PullUp cord - will try (usualy here we use an empty plastic bottle but I prefer your cord Idea)

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hparrish:
I see nothing wrong with your arm postion at this point. You are doing beter than 75% or the population that leans forward and has their arms behind them. You need arms to sitfly but need to be able to bring them in closer to take clean docks. I don't think they are telling you to fly with no arms, just a little less arm. I don't know anyone who can sitfly with no arms out.

It is best to be able to sitfly with your arms closer in to your torso. Just bend them 90 degrees at the elbows to bring them in closer to your body.

Aggie Dave had excelent advice for jumping with a pullup cord. Thats an excellent excersize for flying with your torso and legs. Will get you to where you need to be with regard to taking docks and still flying down the tube.

Good Luck..........Looks like you are already flying very clean for you number of jumps.

Harry P

Thanks for encouraging words
Yes They told about less arms, NO Arms - was my Idea
You say you don't think it's possible to sit fly without arms at all? h-mm it's pitty q'z it'll be damn cool to "sit" in front of my buddy or operator like a BOSS with arms crossed on my chest
Is it impossible?? I hope that it's can be done (with reasonable amount of jumps and $$$ for practice
Thank you Guys for advice

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[lili 0]

sitflying without arms can be done, flying in a windtunnel will help you to understand how to do this whilst still maintaining the same speed and distance relative to your jumping partner. It requires more flying with your legs and back to compensate for the loss of drag from your arms.

Lx

[jraf 0]

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sitflying without arms can be done, flying in a windtunnel will help you to understand how to do this whilst still maintaining the same speed and distance relative to your jumping partner. It requires more flying with your legs and back to compensate for the loss of drag from your arms.

Lx

I fully agree - I just tried that in the Windtunnel last Sunday. Once you get hang of it it is actually pretty easy and fun! Then again my first FF instructor Peter G. has stressed that I am to fly woth my legs - it works!

jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

[Extrakt 0]

Is flying with no arms possible?

Sure is possible, this is one of my fav things to do,
just cross your arms over your chest and try fly it.
I put a hand on each opposite sholder, feels mad when you speed up from it.

"If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????"

www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic

[hparrish 0]

Sure you can sitfly with no arms out............It's far from impossible. My point was that I see very few advanced freeflyers sitflying with no hands out, nor do I see the need to work on sitflying with no hands out, unless it's a personal goal you are shooting for.

I don't think Sitflying with No Hands is necessarily a skill that advanced freeflyers work towards. When you advance to flying with larger groups I doubt you'll fly slot specific with No Hands out.

I don't do it for 4 Way VRW. I just need to be able to sitfly with my hands in front of me or to the sides to fly my slot and turn points.

[Extrakt 0]

The reason I would think would be to gain more control and awareness from learing how to fly with just your lower body. Which would help when flying with hands in front and turning points.

"If murder and suicide are illegal, then why is it ok to kill yourself and others with cigarettes?????"

www.myspace.com/Hypoxicmusic

[NWPoul 1]

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The reason I would think would be to gain more control and awareness from learing how to fly with just your lower body. Which would help when flying with hands in front and turning points.

Exactly! +fun
Didn't successed in "no arms flying" last weekend 7 jumps...trying to fully rely on legs, take off the jaket (to reduce upper drag) - was close but still very unstable...so I decided to postpone "no arms exercises" for a while and get some fun from the loops and group jumps. Well I found that I alomst forget how to just sit...

Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?

[hparrish 0]

Well as long as it's something your'e working on for your own personal reasons, that's cool. Keep it up that's what changes and progresses our sport.

I just got the impression someone told you, you had to be able to sitfly with no arms out. Sounds like that's not the case.

Keep up the good work, your form looks good to me.

Later,

[kefran 0]

well, first i can tell you that your actual position is on the very good side :)
now to free your arms i think that the best way is too ... forget them, have fun with a friend or 2 in the air, try to fly relative with them and suddenly you'll realize that your arms are not anymore a problem. as long as you'll think of your arms you will work on them. relax your shoulders and let your hands fly freely ... at least that's how i finally get rid of flying with my arms instead of my legs ;)

have fun !

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I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution !

[packerboy 3]

Try to get good at checking your altimeter without turning.

An excercise that I have had success with is, when jumping with others, do the "squish their head with your fingers thing"

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In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson