Use ya toes! (question for experienced ff'ers)

[WrongWay 0]

When you're flying on your head, do you flex your toes back so your feet will be as if you are standing?

Does it matter if your feet are straight (like standing) or pointed down?

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[freeflydrew 0]

it always changes...

[Vertifly 0]

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When you're flying on your head, do you flex your toes back so your feet will be as if you are standing?

Does it matter if your feet are straight (like standing) or pointed down?

Try to fly your parts in the places where they are (or are going). It isn't a good idea to presuppose positioning. In other words, don't just stick your feet somewhere and hope that this is the way it is supposed to be done. I can't remember EVER thinking about my toes, foot, ankle, chin, etc. when flying. But can't they ALL be a variable?..of course, they can be. Will you decide to make them count?..or not?

The questions are what will YOU do to slow down, speed up, move around, or just stay still? Sound crazy?

[WrongWay 0]

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Sound crazy?

Actually, it makes perfect sense.

I've been thinking about it. A friend of mine (experienced ff'er), when I asked him this question told me "Don't think about the little things like that. I have my own body position that nobody else has, and that's what works for my body, it's what I'm most comfortable flying. Fly what's comfortable for you.". The more I think about it, the more I realize he's right. As long as I'm wherever I need to be on the skydive, who gives a shit where my toes are pointed or which way my hands are facing or how far forward or back my hips are. If I'm there and I'm flying my slot, what does it matter?

*light clicks on* Okay, I need some air time, NOW.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Zenister 0]

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As long as I'm wherever I need to be on the skydive, who gives a shit where my toes are pointed or which way my hands are facing or how far forward or back my hips are. If I'm there and I'm flying my slot, what does it matter?

efficiency. You can do nearly anything from some amazingly strange positions, the question becomes, 'am i flying most efficiently'? of course efficiency is defined by what and where your going to next and how long, how much energy and effort it takes to get there from where you are, how you are, flying now.

Of course there is something to be said for aesthetics. Some fliers look more natural, fly more elegantly but sacrifice some efficiency to do so, ideally the most elegant position is also the most efficient, but that is what the freestylists work to acheive.

Your ‘ideal’ body position is going to be specific to you, but that doesn’t mean you cant make improvements that give you more range and control..

if it only takes a ‘little bit of toe’ to get where you need to, why would you ‘throw your whole leg’ in and have to compensate elsewhere? I’ve seen lots of people flying headdown with their upper arms pinned to their torso and their palms at shoulder level…aka the pizza man.. how efficient is that? And it doesn’t even look cool

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[WrongWay 0]

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As long as I'm wherever I need to be on the skydive, who gives a shit where my toes are pointed or which way my hands are facing or how far forward or back my hips are. If I'm there and I'm flying my slot, what does it matter?

efficiency. You can do nearly anything from some amazingly strange positions, the question becomes, 'am i flying most efficiently'? of course efficiency is defined by what and where your going to next and how long, how much energy and effort it takes to get there from where you are, how you are, flying now.

Of course there is something to be said for aesthetics. Some fliers look more natural, fly more elegantly but sacrifice some efficiency to do so, ideally the most elegant position is also the most efficient, but that is what the freestylists work to acheive.

Your ‘ideal’ body position is going to be specific to you, but that doesn’t mean you cant make improvements that give you more range and control..

if it only takes a ‘little bit of toe’ to get where you need to, why would you ‘throw your whole leg’ in and have to compensate elsewhere? I’ve seen lots of people flying headdown with their upper arms pinned to their torso and their palms at shoulder level…aka the pizza man.. how efficient is that? And it doesn’t even look cool

Well there is a certain line to be crossed of course. Basically I've been getting a lot of coaching and such just to figure out what my most efficient body position is. After I found that (my most efficient so far anyway), I kept trying variations of it to make it "prettier". Doing little things like where my toes are pointed, whether my hands are facing back to the wind or thumbs to the wind, etc. were almost totally for "visual" purposes. (well the hands thing was for comfort too but anyway...)

But yeah, these guys are right, when it comes to details that small, you should just fly your body and do what you need to do to be where you need to be. Why sacrifice efficiency to look pretty? It's gonna look a hell of a lot cooler when it takes you three seconds to get there instead of seven.

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Vertifly 0]

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I can't remember EVER thinking about my toes, foot, ankle, chin, etc. when flying. But can't they ALL be a variable?..of course...

ok, i quoted myself, so what? LOL
I'm thinking more about the wind and how it is travelling over/across/around me. If you think about the relative wind more than your body, you can gauge the affect it will have on your position. Then you can learn to, simply - over time, use it to your advantage and you'll be a much better flyer. ...IMHO
Can anyone back me up on this?

[Trent 0]

When you're teaching someone to freefly, giving them specific, observable positions does actually help. Beginners have little idea as to what their bodies should feel like in the HD position, much like as a first jump student, you didn't know much what it would be like to be stable on your belly and controlling heading and fall rate with your body. After your instructor put you in a stable position and gave you fundamentals about how to control your body... you probably started to feel it for yourself and adapted to what was more efficient/comfortable for yourself. I know I fly VERY differently now on my belly than I did as a student. It is similar for freeflying in that you want to give students the fundamentals so that they can get a feel for how it works, then let them really fly it.

Learning some fundamentals really helps speed up learning later, I think. It's like that hierarchy of learning... the lowest form is memorization (of body position) and it progresses to understanding (which is what Vertifly is talking about in his last post).

Oh, hello again!

[freethefly 6]

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I can't remember EVER thinking about my toes, foot, ankle, chin, etc. when flying. But can't they ALL be a variable?..of course...

I was taught by Tamara Koyn back in 98 about being aware of the relative wind on all parts of the body and relating it to balance. If the relative wind is applied evenly you find balance and movement and transitions will be smoother. Over time you tend to not think of these "little things" as your flying technique becomes second nature. Do some drills and focus on just one part of the body and explore what that foot, hand, ankle, hips..... can do.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

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[dreamsville 0]

When I was carving on an earlier coach jump, Steve Blincoe (1st School of Flight) recommended pointing my toes at 90 degrees instead of letting the foot just hang. That was less universal advice than something to help me be conscious of leg and foot position if I was carving. I suppose it's one way to help get more control when needed during learning progression. Now I don't have the carving problem on most jumps.

I mentioned this example to agree that things we learn early are intended for good habits, even though we will evolve our skills with air time and then sight and feel will take over more as we hone our skills.

I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143