Bad habbits...

[grega 0]

If one wouldn't be able to get a coach, and the only way of learning freefly is by trial and error, and the theory and drills he found here and on the web, what is the best way for him to learn head-up flying.

- What is the best order to learn the drills (falling straight down, changing speed, forward movement, backward, sideways, etc.) What to learn first what second, third,...

- And most important, if someone is learning by himself, he can quite easily get some bad habits. So what are the bad habits he should avoid and why?


Mostly for head up, but if you have any advices for Head down, don't hesitate. And give as much details as you were talking to an Aff student.

p.s.: And please try not to say "Get a coach"

"George just lucky i guess!"

[sunnydee123 0]

Get a coach .......sorry - don't you know when you tell someone to NOT do something,t he first thing they do is that...DUH!

Seriously little one - you can only teach yourself so much and even pals can only show you so much - with just 30 headdown attempts I had ALREADY started to pick up some bad habits...there seem to be too many to name....I am as broke as the next person (look at my travels this year) so deciding to get coaching was notv easy - BUT HOLD SHIT AM I GLAD I DID IT!

Do some solos - try and get the "feel" for your freeflying then make an investment in just 1 coach jump.....I bet it will turn into a few more (and I bet you'll be glad you are broke that week).

Have fun kid!

Dreams become reality, one choice at a time...

[gus 1]

I've developed the bad habit of sit flying with my arms too far back. I subconciously compensate by having my knees slightly too bent - so I'm falling down the tube because the forward drive created by my arms is cancelled out by the backwards drive created by my shins - but it annoys me!

I see alot of people sit flying hunched over, like the seat has just fallen out of their chair.

Both of these are, IMHO, bad habits because it means your natural position isn't as neutral as it might be.

Here's a good example of my dodgy sit position.

Gus

OutpatientsOnline.com

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

Hi Grega,

Maybe I'm out of line on this, perhaps others wouldn't think I have enough experience to contribute here.
However,
I wonder, are you trying to become a superstar freeflyer? I mean, do you want to compete someday? If so, then you will need coaching for sure, but you can get similar coachin in a wind tunnel for half the cost of the same amount of time in the sky.

Now if your not trying to become a 'pro' freeflyer, then I don't think you would want to worry about 'bad habits'. If your stable, then that is great. One thing I have learned over my years of flying is that not everyone has the same body position. Belly to earth looks different on most people. Your CG (center of gravity) is different than mine, so our positions would not be identical.

Freeflying, I thought, is supposed to be FREE FLYING. No points to turn, nothing but unencumbered flight maneuvers. That to me, means that there is no exact. You must feel the air and go with it.

I do however think there is a proper order to flying your body, belly to earth, right & left turns on heading, speed changes by getting bigger & smaller with your surface area, and yes forward and backward. After that it's tricks all the way..
Learn a T (one leg down, toe pointed) which will help you learn to displace body parts under you, then you turn that into a modified standup (both legs down still leaning over at the waist) once you have it. That turns into a standup (head up flying) when you straighten your back out.

The point to stable flight is neutral yes, but that is different for everyone. There is much you can learn watching videos, talking to jumpers and with wind tunnel coaching. After all several dozen pro's use the tunnel for practice, maybe you could too!

If you don't know where to find a tunnel, visit our site! There are lots of pics to see there too, illustrating most body positions. http://www.bodyflight.net

[WrongWay 0]

"I see alot of people sit flying hunched over, like the seat has just fallen out of their chair."

This is a VERY common problem that newer sitflyers have. I had this problem once as well.

IMHO, the most efficient sitfly position can be described as this:

1. Back straight, hips forward a bit to help this.

This along with a good leg position will give you your "neutral spot". From here any move you make should be more efficient.

2. Legs out nice and WIDE, with roughly a 90 degree angle at the knees, which will be roughly even on level with your hips.

This will give you your main source of stability. In having a very wide stance with your legs, you are free to do with your arms as you wish. This is how very experienced flyers stay upright when they take two handed docks in front or behind them.

3. Arms should be out straight, perhaps slightly behind you, stong but relaxed.

Since your legs are primarily going to be controlling your fall rate/turns/movement, the arm position can be compromised to a point, depending on how much you use your legs. Essentially you want them to stay neutral until they need to be used for something else, like docks.

4. BIG ASS SMILE ON YOUR FACE.

This will help you relax and fly more smoothly, and even if you can't fly, you'll look cool geeking the camera.

HOPE THIS HELPED A LITTLE!!

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[WrongWay 0]

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Now if your not trying to become a 'pro' freeflyer, then I don't think you would want to worry about 'bad habits'.

Not to argue with you, but just to make a point.

I don't think that statement really has any pull with freeflyers simply because we all want to do things the right way, because the right way doesn't just look pretty, it expands our flying abilities. For instance, on your head, if you have "lazy legs" you can still fly neutral, but your movements and fall rates and going to be greatly hindered because you've just picked up on another common "bad habit". I personally probably will not go into professional competitive freefly any time soon, but I'd like to eventually be able to fly like the pros, just because I want to be good at what I do, and do it the right way.

Just my $.02...

BTW, nice site!!

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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we all want to do things the right way, because the right way doesn't just look pretty, it expands our flying abilities.

I'm a point prover too ;)

I don't think of freeflying like a recipe, 1 part hands, 2 parts posture, 1/2 cup of heading awareness..
It's FREE flying.
I also don't think it's the assumed 'correct' position that expands your flying abilities, it's your brain that expands. The idea of moving from a lifetime of walking upright to laying it all out on 3 planes of dimension. Not something your body can understand without the expansion of your mind. Flying starts and ends with your mind and your perception.

my .02
:)

[RoadRash 0]

I agree with sunny, I used a good portion of my savings this past season to begin freefly coaching. I did a bunch of solos, but when you have someone in the air with you that is not only a reference point, but videoing your every move, you can change bad habits and sometimes prevent them. I have improved way faster than people with twice as many jumps because I got the coaching. Find someone who is willing to be a mentor. Hell, offer to buy their jump ticket just to jump with someone who is knowledgeable and get some tips!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Fly the friendly skies...^_^...})ii({...^_~...

[grega 0]

Yes i'm trying to be a PRO flyer.

Yes i said explain it to me like i'd be an aff student, but i didn't really mean that. I know how to fly stable sit, move all the ways, and put arm in front of me without really loosing stability and staying at the same place. well i think i know sit well enough, so i tried HD, and already know how to fly hd, turn and move forward, backward. But let's leave HD for now.

I thought if maybe i have any bad habit that i don't know about, and would be a problem later on. That's why i asked what are all the bad habits that exist in head up position, so i can work on them now, if i have any.

p.s.: but sunny don't we have an agreement, that you'll be my coach next year, when you'll be already coaching and i'll still be working on my HD
And yes i'll definitely get a coach anytime now.

"George just lucky i guess!"

[sssbc99 0]

The "right" way can vary slightly from person to person but developing bad habits is NEVER a good thing. Not just for your flying ability, but for the safety of others. You could do a whole bunch of solos and think you are doing the right thing and then go jump with someone and realize when it is too late that you had a shitload of bad habits.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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The "right" way can vary slightly from person to person but developing bad habits is NEVER a good thing.

I could completely agree... but then keeping with the original post then which/what habits are 'bad'?

I know my experiences are different because of my source of learning, but what could be bad?I'm just trying to learn this new world too

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[grega 0]

I agree, but if you were talking this for my case. I already did bunch of 2,3,4-ways sit flying, and so far haven't found any disastrous bad habit.

1. bad habit: leaning too much forward and sliding backward a little constantly

2. bad habit: having your arms too mach to the back and compensating with your legs

3. bad habit: having your legs together instead of spread (90 degrees), that could be very troublesome later when you'll use your hands.

4. bad habit:...

and so on.




if you know or have heard about other bad habits, that seemed to make troubles later with some advanced moves, please add them. Include bad habits for head down too.

"George just lucky i guess!"

[sssbc99 0]

I would say that three of the worst habits I have seen when I fly hd with people(yes i used to do this and yes there are other bad habits) are:

1. Focusing so hard on flying with your palms toward the ground that you are arching your back (like in rw). Edit: Or arching for any reason.

2. Trying so hard to get in the "position" that you are really tense in your upper body and not flying your legs at all.

3. Getting stuck flying in one leg postion, i.e. never moving your legs around and therefore restricting your flying.

I think that each of these can develop into really bad habits that can be a pain in the ass to fix in the future. There are probably other bad ones but i am sure someone will mention them here.

Edit: Regarding bad habits in a sit: the things you mentioned will only make it harder when you want to do a lot of docks. Learning to fly a neutral position without compensating either way is only going to make things progress faster.

[grega 0]

What no more bat habbit, that's all?

"George just lucky i guess!"

[freakydiver 0]

I would have to disagree. Alot of what a coach would teach a sit-flyer in terms of 90's all around is taught because its been proven to allow for the most range in maneuverability. I agree it is FREE flying, but in all honesty, so is belly flying and there are good ways and bad ways to do that too. While it may be FREE flying, there are ways that people have learned to do things that are plain and simple better than other ways.

-- (N.DG) "If all else fails – at least try and look under control." --

[WrongWay 0]

Well said!!

*high five*

Wrong Way
D #27371 Mal Manera Rodriguez Cajun Chicken Ø Hellfish #451
The wiser wolf prevails.

[Bodyflight.Net 0]

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I would have to disagree. Alot of what a coach would teach a sit-flyer in terms of 90's all around is taught because its been proven to allow for the most range in maneuverability. I agree it is FREE flying, but in all honesty, so is belly flying and there are good ways and bad ways to do that too. While it may be FREE flying, there are ways that people have learned to do things that are plain and simple better than other ways.

I understand, thanks for clarifying!!

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