freeatlast 0 #1 July 21, 2003 A question - In todays Gear Regulations for visiting Parachutists article it states :- QuoteIf both components are TSO'd and can be used in the United States by a United States citizen, then United States standards apply. So, a French citizen jumping a Javelin and a PD reserve in the United States must comply with all United States regulations, including a 120 day repack by an FAA rigger, with a seal applied to the reserve. Does this mean that from now on (once I've got a new reserve pin that is !!!) if I want to jump my Javelin rig (which is fully TSO'd) in the states I have to now ensure the 120 day repack plus ensure it has a riggers seal - something not normally done where I have my reserve re-packs (- in the UK / NZ). It looks like I'll have to get my reserve re-packed each time I visit if my repack doesn't bear a riggers seal. - Sorry to ask but I just want to be sure of the rules ... Many thanks James QuotePure Adenalin - its MY WAY OF LIFE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #2 July 21, 2003 QuoteDoes this mean that from now on (once I've got a new reserve pin that is !!!) if I want to jump my Javelin rig (which is fully TSO'd) in the states I have to now ensure the 120 day repack plus ensure it has a riggers seal Yes, if the harness/container AND the reserve are both TSO'd. That is the way the regulation reads. Some drop zones have not understood the regulation and may not be enforcing it, but that is how it was written. We had some questions about this regulation at The Ranch so I did some research and was able to establish what the regulation says. There is a great deal of misunderstanding in the field, and that's why I wrote the feature on the dropzone.com homepage. You may find the drop zones you visit don't care about the regulation and will not require the 120 day repack with a seal...that decision is up to them, but drop zone management should understand what the regulation actually says. Tom Buchanan S&TA, The Ranch Sr. Parachute RiggerTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NM156 0 #3 July 21, 2003 Can anyone confirm that, for the WFFC, the 180 days is still acceptable for Canadian with their own gear (even if it is TSO'd in the US). It seems to me that, according to the Gear Regulations for Parachutists Visiting the US, I would need a repack, but according to the WFFC website, they still mention that :"Your gear must be 'in date' for the entire convention, even if you are not staying for the entire duration. For USA Jumpers, the date that needs to be reflected on your repack card is April 12, 2003 or after. Foreign jumpers gear will need to be in date for their country's repack cycle.If your gear is not current through the end of the Convention, you will be directed to the friendly and professional onsite riggers for a repack." Is it just that their web site has not been updated? NM156 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #4 July 21, 2003 Thanks Tom for the clarification ... I just wanted to be sure before someone suddenly tells me I need a re-pack when I'm thinking my gear's ok ... It could be frustrating waiting for a re-pack when everyone else is out jumping !!! James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #5 July 21, 2003 Quote Thanks Tom for the clarification ... That's the idea. I don't like the regulation, but not liking the regulation or ignorance of the regs is not an excuse to break the regs. It's pretty important for jumpers and drop zones to know what the regulations say and then decide at what level they will comply. In this case, the regulation is NOT new, and the USPA position has been on the record for quite a while. It just seemed to be hanging below the radar. So, I don't know how WFFC or any other specific drop zone will handle the detail or decision making. My intent was to get this knowledge out well before the winter travel season, and I didn't consider it was being published just weeks before the WFFC. I guess it will make their life a bit messy, and may be an issue for visiting jumpers too. Sorry about the timing. -tbTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #6 July 21, 2003 Conscientious jumpers check that their reserves have been repacked less than 120 days - before the end of their trip - while others waste time and energy bickering about the finer legal points. If you want to jump at an American DZ, follow the 120 day. Extraterritoriality died a long time ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeatlast 0 #7 July 21, 2003 QuoteConscientious jumpers check that their reserves have been repacked less than 120 days - before the end of their trip - while others waste time and energy bickering about the finer legal points. If you want to jump at an American DZ, follow the 120 day. Extraterritoriality died a long time ago. I completely agree - but the rigger seal will mean I need a re-pack before each visit ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #8 July 21, 2003 Hi Danny! I just re-read the front page post and it sure DOES seem to me that you need to be within 120 days if you;re fully TSO'd. QuoteWhat it Means: Foreign jumpers visiting the United States with a reserve and harness/container approved for use in The United States (TSO'd) should be prepared to comply with United States packing requirements, including the 120 day repack by an FAA certificated rigger. You and I both know that the gear knows not where it is being jumped but it would sure stink to be rejected at manifest until you had a 'rush pack' by an unfamilliar rigger... not that there won't be all kinds of top people at an event like WFFC. I'd be willing to bet though that such a high profile event will be one place that DOES enforce the 120 day rule if fo no other reason that he FAA 'just might' send someone snooping. -Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joyner 0 #9 July 21, 2003 Well consider this: My gear is fully TSO'd (Javelin, PD-R, Stiletto). I am within the 120 day repack, but the repack was done by my rigger in Sweden, who isn't FAA certified (but certified by the Swedish equivalent). There is a seal on the reserve (we have that rule too). Will I still need a repack? Even if it is less than 120 days since it's been done? Reading the text it sounds like I must get the repack, which is silly to me since, my rigger packs according to the PD manual just like the FAA rigger would!? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skytash 0 #10 July 22, 2003 Can anyone help with this? In the past, I have never had problems with my TSO'd rig having been re-packed by a BPA rigger and sealed by him as long as it was done within 120 days. I tend to make sure that my rig in date by US rules before coming over to visit. The guidelines Tom wrote seem to indicate that that the re-pack needs to be done by an FAA rigger. Does that mean that in future I am likely to have problems with a BPA repacked reserve? tashDon't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masher 1 #11 July 23, 2003 skytash just asked my question for me. I can handle the 120 day repack and the seal. I can get that done over here. But it's the FAA rigger bit that worries me.-- Arching is overrated - Marlies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #12 July 23, 2003 Where can I find the TSO list? I've got an Atom rig/Trainsfair reserve (both not TSO'd) but I've also got a Vulcan rig/Micron reserve (no clue)... ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #13 July 23, 2003 Check the labels on the rig and reserve.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kerr 0 #14 July 23, 2003 Quote The guidelines Tom wrote seem to indicate that that the re-pack needs to be done by an FAA rigger. Does that mean that in future I am likely to have problems with a BPA repacked reserve? Yeah, this is my worry. My kit (Raven-M in a Javelin) was last packed in the US so I'm going to have to get it repacked in the UK at 120 days. I will probably be out in the US again about a month after that. I'm not going to be a happy bunny if I need to get it repacked in the states, just because it was packed by a BPA rigger not an FAA one. Unfortunately that's my reading of the regs. Maybe I'll hold off getting the repack done here. Maybe I'll just order a new rig and have it waiting for me Kerr -- Kerr Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #15 July 23, 2003 Quote Unfortunately that's my reading of the regs. Maybe I'll hold off getting the repack done here. Maybe I'll just order a new rig and have it waiting for me It's also possible that the DZ you will be visiting doesn't know about the regulation, or has decided to pretend not to know about the specific interpretation. Call them first. Tom Buchanan Author JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and EasyTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
