Packing problems

[riggerrob 558]

Go read through old issues of "Parachutist" magazine to find old accident summaries and annual summary reports.
Heaven forbid! you might even have to read PAPER magazines.
Hah!
Hah!
I read USPA fatality reports religiously for 20 years. They cured me of a few bad habits like twisted belly bands or waving off with my pilot-chute in hand or hook-turning.
After 20 years AIM reports started blurring together. By the late 1990s, most AIM reports started with a small, heavily-loaded canopy that the deceased only had a few jumps on and was still learning how to plan landing approaches.

[skytribe 16]

Agreed on thread drift.

Learning to pack a ram air canopy in a bag is really very much the same getting the canopy flaked and in the bag. After that there are so many variations in deployment systems (SL, Pull Out, Throwout) and containers.

If you think learning to pack on student gear was a waste of time - then you probably don't understand all the similarities. The first being the SOS system packs no different from packing the main on a Dual handled system.

Everybody learns differently and other have different standards. There are many ways to learn as there are to pack. If you don't understand it could be a problem between the teacher and the student. Sometimes it can be a perception that you just want another sign off to get your license rather than actually learning. Doing something once doesn't necessarily mean you have successfully learned a skill.

On the thread drift topic.

For some people, the SOS system may be the way to go. Just as AAD and RSL are additional safety backup devices for correct emergency procedures. If you change the equipment you change the procedures and practice once or twice is really not going to cut it.

The SOS equipment, is no more dangerous than two handled system. The issue happens when people convert without understanding the system.

This can happen with incredibly experienced people jumping unfamiliar gear and not fully understanding what is on their back at that moment. Example Dan BC (Mr. Safety and highly experienced jumper) had a reserve ride on a CRW jump a couple of years ago because of a weird hybrid pull out/throwout system that some CRW jumpers use. It was just unfamiliar gear from what he was used to. (No disrespect to Dan as its perceived benefits are marginal at best and others have had similar outcomes when jumping it but people in that area have bought into those benefits.) The point is that it was different gear that required an adjustment to his usual procedure for deploying the main parachute. He didn't understand fully what was on his back until it didn't work and had a pilot chute in tow. So it can happen to the best of jumpers.

Take a look at accident statistics and see where most of the fatalities are occurring in the past 20 years. It isn't with SOS systems, branding the equipment dangerous without any solid data to back it up is just anecdotal. If you still want to play a statistics game and look at where fatalities are happening then perhaps looking as Riggerrob has stated you should start at the small, highly loaded canopies.

[riggerrob 558]

.........

Everybody learns differently and other have different standards. There are many ways to learn as there are to pack. If you don't understand it could be a problem between the teacher and the student. ......
.............................

Ideally, the instructor modifies his/her delivery to perfectly match the student(s) best learning-style. Since every student has a different learning-style, the best instructors present new information from several different angles until one method starts to sink in. Then the instructor emphazes that learning-style for the rest of the lesson.

The more senses (sight, sound, touch, smell, taste) the more likely a student will understand one of them.

For example, when confirming that a pilot-chute is properly cocked, I teach: touch to confirm full extension of kill-line/handle; colour-vision to confirm the correct colour of kill-line in inspection window; sight to confirm that apex hangs level with skirt; touch again to confirm that pilot-chute drags when I wave it around and finally sound to confirm that pilot-chute "snaps" when I wave it around quickly. A student is unlikely to remember all those verification methods, so I am happy if one method sinks into long-term memory.

Every packing lesson should include plenty of practice (10 or 20 pack jobs) to burn that muscle memory into longer-term memory. Ideally, I have 3 or 4 similar rigs per student so that they can practice line-checks multiple times before learning the next step.
Sometimes a technique only sinks in as a tired student watches another student checking that lines are straight.

Finally, it speeds the learning process if all DZ staff teach the same packing method: PRO versus flat versus Wolmari versus trash versus roll. Standardization starts with convincing all the tandem packers to pack according to the manufacturers' instructions.

[skytribe 16]

Could not agree more.

Packing is a repetitious process and one or two pack jobs is simply not enough to be considered trained and competent Using a variety of similar gear allows more experience and confidence.

Understanding small differences such as 7 or 9 cells. Able to identify basic wear issues while packing. Able to spot common problems and rectify such as a step through. Are all part of the packing process. This often takes a little time but once understood will stand the student in a really good position for the rest of their skydiving career.

Some just want a simple signoff to get a license and want the bare minimum.

[sammielu 3]

I agree that the ideal packing class has the goal of learning to pack and being ready to pack 100% on their own afterwards. 10-20 pack jobs completed using several rigs for repetition sounds great. Does such a class exist? How much would you riggers charge?

My point is: cheapskate skydivers are unlikely to pay to properly compensate riggers for 8ish hours of a packing class. It's gross how little you already get paid to inspect/maintain/repair my life-saving devices.

[mathrick 2]

That's exactly how packing education works in Denmark. You must complete 20 supervised packjobs (any licensed jumper or packer might teach and supervise), and 5 exam packjobs, in which you demonstrate the ability to teach someone else, find packing errors, untangle a horrible mess, reassemble a cut main, etc. Exams are supervised by "senior packers" (a formal qualification that exists in the Danish system). All of the 25 packjobs are signed off on a progression card, and afterwards you get a packer licence, which is a requirement for all licensed jumpers.

Education costs nothing, since it's all club activity and is considered the proper thing to do (plus it gives you something to do during all the weather holds). Additionally any packjob in which the student participates to any extent is traditionally considered to be a self-pack, so they don't have to pay for packing, even if the participation is limited to listening to the instruction.

"Skydivers are highly emotional people. They get all excited about their magical black box full of mysterious life saving forces."

[erdnarob 1]

I didn't read all posts of this thread and I could repeat what somebody already did but just in case here is my answer to be practical :

You should maybe start packing using a hook to hold the lines near the canopy while the canopy is suspended and here are the advantages of this method :

1) Your two hands are free
2) it is easier to see the 4 sets of lines when being in front of the suspended canopy (opposite side of the harness)
3) it is easier to see and flake the canopy

When you will have packed several times that way, when you feel OK you can switch to the method where you use your shoulders to hold the lines.

Now, if you give me an email address, I will send you the documents including drawings I have used when I was giving packing courses.

First things to know and/or do are :

a) parts of the canopy and their function
b) Position of the canopy when packing (top skin toward the container, lower skin and lines opposite to container, nose is up and tail is down...etc) seen on drawings.
c) grabing all front lines in one hand and the rear lines with the other hand and shake to get the lines well separated
d) flaking the nose (easy since you have your two hands)
e) What are you actually flaking and why (it is...three groups of fabric to flake...between D and C lines, between C and B lines and between B and A lines...because that leave the lines in the middle where they are supposed to be. Also, fabric will be in order and clear from the lines to avoid friction, burns and wear at deployment.
Also to flake, canopy fabric between D line and the rear corner where there is the first steering line and then fabric between the following steering lines

I have also a special method to do the three fold when canopy is on the ground, a method where you keep a better control on the fabric volume which makes it easier to put in the Dbag

Obviously, the method I describe is the pro-pack method

Good luck

Learn from others mistakes, you will never live long enough to make them all.