XTI vs D80

[KennyP 0]

Ok Guys and Gals. I've been doing videos for a few years and decided to to mount a digital still on my helmet. I've spent a few hours checking out DSLR's and determined the best 2 are Cannon XTI and Nikon D80 for skydiving and my price range. I see most of you like Cannons. Outside of price and color resolution, the Nikon actually has better ratings. I'm new to this and don't know if the noise, color, resolution and other differences will be noticeable and worth the difference in price.(Nikon is approx $175 more). Also can you give me some lens recommendations? I'll mainly be doing 1)tandem 2)4way 3)8 and 10 way. ie Is it ok to start with the 18mm to 55mm lens kit or should I immediately buy a wide angle? What's the best size wide angle for the above photography?

TIA Ken

[stratostar 5]

Can't speek of the D-80 or other Nikons, but I don't think you would see much difference between two 8x10's taken with each model, with your naked eye.
As for lens, yes the 18-55 kit lens will work, you will have to fly for it, but I would think you would be happier with a wide angle lens doing those jumps. I like both the sigma 15 mm and the 20mm fixed, but thats me. I think you won't really know what you like best till you do some dives and try out the lenses, it might be best to see if anyone has a wide you could jump a few, but that would depend on what camera you get. You will find more cannons in the field and lenses that mate up to cannon then nikons.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[JonBojar 0]

I've been shooting a D70 for quite a few years and am moving over to Canon. In general they're both awesome cameras but the Nikon doesn't have a fast flash sync (D80 goes to 1/200 but the slowest film speed is 200). Depending on your applications this may or may not matter. The CMOS sensor that Canon uses is also better technology than Nikon's (IMO). Canon also has motion stabilization in their lenses (although you pay for it).

There's a Tokina and Sigma 12-24mm lens that would be a good bet at a moderate price (around $550) when you want to go wide angle from the stock 18-55mm.

[champu 1]

Quote

Also can you give me some lens recommendations? I'll mainly be doing 1)tandem 2)4way 3)8 and 10 way. ie Is it ok to start with the 18mm to 55mm lens kit or should I immediately buy a wide angle?

What's the best size wide angle for the above photography?

The kit lens is an excellent place to start. You can do a few jumps with the zoom ring gaffered to a particular focal length and get an idea of what the composition at that focal length looks like (roughly anyway) and decide what works best for you for each of the subjects you mentioned.

Plus it's nice to have a cheap lens on the thing the first time you whack it into the bar when climbing out.

Personally, I have two lenses I jump. If I want to get a particularly close exit shot, or I'm going to take photos while touching (or almost touching) the subject, I'll use a Sigma f/2.8 15mm. Virtually everything else I use a Canon f/1.8 28mm.

/edited to add: regarding Jon's comment. I don't know anyone who (regularly) shoots stills in freefall with a focal length long enough to warrent the extra weight of a Canon IS lens. You just don't need it in the 10-50mm range which is probably all you're going to be shooting in freefall. For ground shots though, I agree, the IS/L series Canon lenses are pretty incredible.

[Laszloimage 0]

Canon!
Canon has lot better features than Nikon (talking about DSLR's). Better ISO range, better sensor (CMOS), easier to rig for skydiving (externeal shutter release), and etc...
I only recommend Nikon if you already have lenses and other accesorries for it from the film camera world.
-Laszlo-

[guscabana 0]

Hola Ken,
with my D80 finally I feel I jump an skydiving friendly Nikon dslr. After the D100 (slow for Nefs), D1X (bad batteries), D70 (O.K.), D2X (the bomb, but heavy, big and expensive, only for really good stuff), Im in love with this little camera. 10 megapixels is all you need, and have all the controls, including high speed flash synch at any speed (with the SB800 strobe). The connector for the shutter release is a pain (much better is the Canon miniplug), but is good enough they put a socket this time...
Start with the 18-70, is a super nice lens for the money, tape it in a 18mm setting and shoot, shoot, shoot (for years I only have a 28mm -equivalent of the 18mm in the film era-), then experiment with the rest. For example a Nikon 16mm, which gives you a field of view of a 19mm in a film camera, and a nice touch of barrel effect. And then if you want more just get the 10.5 and you will have a real fish eye lens 180 degrees. I like it but you need to be really close, is like a different game, to get good pics you need lots of practice, or be Bruno Brokken who is the master of fish eyes....
I like the ergonomics of the Nikon bodies, and the lenses (the 16 and the 70-200VR are sweeet!!!)

But in the end doesnt matter which camera you choose, at the actual level of them, they are all good.

Enjoy the still world!
Gustavo
www.guscabana.com

[dragon2 0]

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I've been shooting a D70 for quite a few years and am moving over to Canon. In general they're both awesome cameras but the Nikon doesn't have a fast flash sync (D80 goes to 1/200 but the slowest film speed is 200).

Not true, you just need to enable the fast flash sync in the menu for D200/D80 (D70/D70s go to 1/500 anyway).

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[dragon2 0]

The D80 is a great skydiving camera, and it feels much more solid than the "toy" cheaper EOS camera's. Nothing wrong with D30/5D etc, but the cheaper models, feel, well, cheap This may be an advantage though because they are smaller and lighter. But I love my D70s and D80
I usually use a 20mm, tried a 14mm and am now getting a 16mm fisheye. The 20mm works for most things but would like a wider view for exit shots.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[JonBojar 0]

So you're saying the D80 has as fast a flash sync as the D70? I know the D70 goes to 1/500 but the D80 is spec'd as 1/200 by Nikon.

(I also shoot underwater which is why this is important.)

thanks.

[dragon2 0]

Not sure if this only works with SB600/SB800 flash, but when you enable the Auto FP High-Speed Sync option you can go up to I think 1/4000 on a D80

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[KennyP 0]

Thanks 'y gracias' for the responses.
I'm still not sure which to get. They each seem to have advantages over the other. I guess I'll have to go to the store and do a side by side comparison next. Also lots of good advice on lenses. I'm leaning toward getting a sigma wide angle zoom first then investing in a fixed one, once I get a good feel for what I'll need. I use a .45x on my video camera and want to get something fixed that matches up for tandem shots since those will most likely make up the bulk of my camera jumps. (Any advice on filters?)

Thanks again! I'm sure I'll be needing a lot more advice as I start accumulating equipment and camera jumps.

Ken

[PharmerPhil 0]

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(Any advice on filters?)

Personally, I use the Canon 15mm fisheye (a little more money than the Sigma, but a great lens with slightly less weight) or a Tokina 17mm non-fisheye (great lens, but kinda heavy).

I hate using fisheye all the time, it is kinda like lots of echo-effect all your songs. If you are shooting RW from above, the fisheye effect isn't as annoying because there aren't many straight lines to get messed with, but if you are on level (like filming a tandem) it gets pretty obnoxious (horizon gets bent if it's not right in the middle). Like any effect, it is best used rarely if at all. I'm sure I'll catch hell for saying that, but that's how I (and most non-skydivers) feel.

As far as filters, I am guessing you are referring to filters for lens protection like a UV or haze filter. Unfortunately, they don't fit on the Canon or Sigma 15mm lenses because of the extreme curvature to the front element. If you are using a cheap kit lens (18-55mm), it is comparatively expensive insurance for a fairly cheap lens. Any of my more expensive lenses have UV filters on them though. $20 is a chea way to protect a $600-1200 lens.

Other filters aren't that useful for skydiving IMHO. You can achieve the same effect as colored lenses (warming, etc.) in the computer. And the Polarized or graduated ND lenses that would normally be helpful need to be rotated precisely which precludes their use in freefall.

Just my too sense...

[The111 0]

I agree about the fisheye effect.

One of the amazing things about the Canon 10-22 EF-S is that there is virtually no distortion throughout the entire zoom range. 10mm (16mm equivalent) with no fisheye!

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[dragon2 0]

I also dislike the fisheye effect for most pics. I thought I had a nice solution by buying a 2nd hand 14mm (straight) sigma, but it turned out to have water damage A new 14mm is a) very expensive (esp the nikkor model) and b) very heavy (this older model was way lighter and smaller).

The big advantages for the fisheyes: their price and weight.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Fast 0]

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I agree about the fisheye effect.

One of the amazing things about the Canon 10-22 EF-S is that there is virtually no distortion throughout the entire zoom range. 10mm (16mm equivalent) with no fisheye!

True but that doesn't matter for tandem students because it is most likely one of the first fisheye pictures they have ever seen of themselves.

On the flipside, I try to take pictures that make it hard to notice the fisheye when I am shooting regular skydiving.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[vdschoor 0]

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I agree about the fisheye effect.

One of the amazing things about the Canon 10-22 EF-S is that there is virtually no distortion throughout the entire zoom range. 10mm (16mm equivalent) with no fisheye!

I'm saving my money for the 5D instead, so I can start jumping my all time favorite 28mm again!

To this day I love my old Rebel 2000 with the 28mm lens.. that camera just didn't weigh ANYTHING!

[bofh 0]

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One of the amazing things about the Canon 10-22 EF-S is that there is virtually no distortion throughout the entire zoom range. 10mm (16mm equivalent) with no fisheye!

I really like my 10-22mm too, but a fisheye is often cheaper. If one doesn't want the fisheye effect, one can still use a fisheye lens and then post process the picture. There are programs and settings for most common lenses. The drawback is that one has to crop the image some and lose some resolution (and of course spend some time post processing), but on the other hand it is cheaper.

[PharmerPhil 0]

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If one doesn't want the fisheye effect, one can still use a fisheye lens and then post process the picture.

Yeah you CAN do this, but you have to crop so much you lose the advantage of using a 15mm in the first place. That's one reason I like my 17mm Tokina (which I believe is available for Nikon as well). And last I knew it was a little over $00 which is cheaper than the 15mm Canon. I have heard good things about the 10-22mm and would love to try it in the air. I used one for a week, but it wasn't for skydiving. With my current set-up, I have to worry about too long a lens also. To keep it out of the frame of the video, I would have to move my video camera forward, and that seems to amplify my openings.

This original post was questioning Canon vs. Nikon. And I believe there are some nice, small 14mm or 16mm lenses available from Nikon. If it is just for skydiving, that may be reason enough to go the Nkon route. The glass you use is more important than the body anyway.

And ditto on the Rebel 2000. I have one with a 24mm f2.8 Canon that I use on most of my tandems. Great glass and a light body.

[dragon2 0]

If you use Nikon's Capture NX, the cropping isn't bad! You keep the same filesize but only the edges get cropped where they curl in (if that makes sense). I corrected a few windtunnel pics taken with the 10.5mm nikkor fisheye that way, seriously cool! It doesn't compare to what photoshop can do, at least without plug-ins, photoshop leaves you with a small picture that's cropped pretty bad.

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[Clownburner 0]

I don't know if it's a factor for you, but if you're also going to use the camera on the ground a lot, I find the Nikon ergonomics to be better than the canon, although some of that is personal preference. Having used both cameras, the Nikon has better automatic metering, I think.

They're both pretty close though, and you can get just about the same lenses for them at most focal lengths - both systems have equivalent catalogs, except canon has more IS lenses in the super-telephoto range, which totally doesn't matter for skydiving, obviously.

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"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth