jont 0 #1 June 8, 2006 Hi Just bought myself a low-cost dvd recorder (TECHNIKA 2005) so I can turn around tandem videos faster. My laptop doesn't have s-video out, so I was planning on using the firewire link to record. Unfortunately the dvd recorder won't recognise the laptop when it's connected to the firewire port. It happily sees my camera, but reports NO DV INPUT from the laptop. Interim solution - firewire out of the laptop back into my camera, and then video composite into the back of the DVD recorder. Questions:- 1) Should I take the DVD recorder back and get a better one, or do they all do this? 2) does doing it the way I am (going through the camera) cause a drop in quality? all suggestions welcome cheers jon t Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #2 June 8, 2006 The Tecknica doesn't have full OHCI compatibility, so if it can't see your cam, you likely have one it can't communicate with. You also might look to update your DVHS drivers in the 1394 driver palette. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dokeman 0 #3 June 9, 2006 which dvd recorders work like this? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #4 June 9, 2006 Most "brand name" DVD recorders are OHCI compliant. It's the cheaper no-names that aren't. All the Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha, JVC, etc are to the best of my knowledge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dokeman 0 #5 June 9, 2006 so when i get done editing my video on my comp, i can send the avi file to a stand alone dvd burner via firewire and burn it with out having to "render" What programs do this.. will movie maker do this, cause thats what im using.. ????? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #6 June 9, 2006 No. I now better understand your question. Unless you have a hardware assist card, such as a Canopus or Matrox card that can assist in sending your avi without rendering it, you're stuck with: 1. Rendering to MPEG from your timeline or 2. Rendering to AVI from your timeline, exporting to DVD player and having it convert realtime to MPEG. or 3. Using a hardware encoder to MPEG that will accept whatever output you throw at it, Compressed formats require rendering,(time-costly) or real-time hardware conversion ($$costly) There is no free lunch. MovieMaker uses OHCI drivers to export via 1394, but it requires a finish render to avi. Some apps render to MPEG faster than others, but at a quality hit. Outside of CinemaCraft and MainConcept, Sony Vegas offers the best encode you'll get. But it's also among the slower renders, being about 2:1 for non-rendered timeline, and faster than realtime for a rendered timeline. Adobe, Canopus, Ulead are all faster, but offer less quality. If you've rendered your avi from the timeline, you can print to tape and sent *that* to the DVD burner, and not have to render to MPEG, yes. Did that make sense? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dokeman 0 #7 June 9, 2006 what would be the best way for me to "get the job done" using movie maker? Right now i am improting and saving my final product in DV. Then i use dvdsanta to burn my avi to dvd. http://www.dvdsanta.com/ Would it be faster to save/import my video to mpeg or something else? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #8 June 9, 2006 The *easiest* way to do this is to just render the MovieMaker as an AVI, and import that directly with DVDSanta. (button furthest to the left) That's it. If you wanna spend some additional $$, there are other apps that are faster/more efficient, but if this workflow goes for you, might as well ride it out. I wrote a small software tool that does this automatically, but it only works for Sony Vegas. Called "DVD Prep." Free, on the VASST.com website. HTH Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dokeman 0 #9 June 9, 2006 right now, using my laptop it takes about 15-20 minutes total. But I am only at the computer for about 3 minuts total. Start to capture, then Set my brakes and walk my canopy up. By then its done capturing and I change the titles and add the music. Then let it save as an avi. While its doing that I am putting my canopy in the bag and stowing my lines. By then the movie is saved and I just drag it to dvd santa and let it burn while I close my container and do my next ground interview. The system works great, but if I can do it faster, great! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #10 June 9, 2006 A contained/suite would be a tad faster, and allow you to use a pre-created menu, walkup, and closing sequence in about the same amount of time. I've got lots of templates for this that Skydive Utah is using. Very fast, and very efficient. but...if this workflow is working for you, stick with it. Vegas Movie Studio has a better encoder, but it's also slightly slower than DVDSanta. I just tested it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jont 0 #11 June 11, 2006 hey! my thread's been hijacked! dse, thanks for replying to my original query. QuoteYou also might look to update your DVHS drivers in the 1394 driver palette. didn't understand that bit at all. any chance of an idiot's version? plus Quote Most "brand name" DVD recorders are OHCI compliant. It's the cheaper no-names that aren't. All the Sony, Pioneer, Yamaha, JVC, etc are to the best of my knowledge. but i just phoned Sony's technical people, and asked them if their dvd recorder would record from my Sony vaio laptop via the firewire port, and they said definitely not, it was only designed to talk to cameras (which the TECHNIKA does as well.) yours even more confused jon t Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #12 June 12, 2006 Jont, More information is quite helpful... No, your VAIO won't allow you to connect a camcorder to the firewire and record straight to the built in DVD burner. Not possible, as there are some processes that need to take place first. You CAN connect an external firewire DVD burner to your VAIO, I do this regularly. But you have to capture from the camera first. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jont 0 #13 June 12, 2006 ok, so my current process is... capture from camera edit in Premiere Elements 2.0 export on to harddrive as AVI burn to DVD using ClickToDVD as stages 3 and 4 take a looooong time, I was hoping to find a quicker solution, i.e. export from Elements direct to a DVD recorder. I find I can use Export to Tape to send it to the camera, while simultaneously taking a video-out from the camera into the video-in on the recorder. But this strikes me as clunky, and I suspect causes a drop in quality. I was wondering if I could find a way to go direct from the laptop to the recorder, without the camera doing the digital-analogue conversion. As they both had firewire ports, it seemed to my non-technical brain a possibility. But I guess not. I don't have s-video out on the laptop, or that might have made life easier. any thoughts? ta jon t Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ScottyInAus 0 #14 June 12, 2006 Curiosity, what are the specs on your Laptop? Cheers, Jason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jont 0 #15 June 12, 2006 QuoteCuriosity, what are the specs on your Laptop? sony vaio s2xp. 1.8 gighz pentium M processer. 80gig drive. 1 gig memory. jon t Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #16 June 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteCuriosity, what are the specs on your Laptop? sony vaio s2xp. 1.8 gighz pentium M processer. 80gig drive. 1 gig memory. jon t graphics card? ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jont 0 #17 June 12, 2006 Quotegraphics card? ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 will this have any bearing on my ability to link my laptop to a dvd recorder via firewire? jt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #18 June 12, 2006 QuoteQuotegraphics card? ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 will this have any bearing on my ability to link my laptop to a dvd recorder via firewire? jt No, just on how fast or slow you can render. Which you will have to do anyway... I just got a new laptop 4 days ago: dual core 2400, g-force go 256 mb, 1gb ram, 2x 80gb 5400 rpm harddrives. And it is FAST ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #19 June 12, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotegraphics card? ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 will this have any bearing on my ability to link my laptop to a dvd recorder via firewire? jt No, just on how fast or slow you can render. Which you will have to do anyway... I just got a new laptop 4 days ago: dual core 2400, g-force go 256 mb, 1gb ram, 2x 80gb 5400 rpm harddrives. And it is FAST In many NLE and MPEG encoding apps, the vid card doesn't matter. Not all (most don't) NLE's take advantage of GPU for encode, but do for decode. To speed rendering, hard drives, front side bus, and proc are the always-relevant things to look out for. Everything else is application dependent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jont 0 #20 June 13, 2006 Don't want to appear ungrateful, this is all useful info, but can I drag this thread kicking and screaming back to my original questions? Should I swap my Technika DVD recorder for a better "name" model? If I do, will I be able to record edited footage from my Sony Vaio laptop via firewire? Does outputting via firewire to the camera and then recording analog from video input degrade the footage? Shoud I swap my laptop for one with s-video, or is that just the same as going via the camera? Is there another way I should be considering, to speed up my tandem video turnaround? any/all suggestions gratefully received! cheers jon t Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #21 June 13, 2006 QuoteIs there another way I should be considering, to speed up my tandem video turnaround? Straight linear editing. Forget the computer. Camera-->Mixing Board-->DVD Recorder. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #22 June 13, 2006 QuoteDon't want to appear ungrateful, this is all useful info, but can I drag this thread kicking and screaming back to my original questions? Should I swap my Technika DVD recorder for a better "name" model? If I do, will I be able to record edited footage from my Sony Vaio laptop via firewire? You should be able to, yes. I do this daily. Does outputting via firewire to the camera and then recording analog from video input degrade the footage? yes. but probably not enough degradation to concern you much. Shoud I swap my laptop for one with s-video, or is that just the same as going via the camera? Is there another way I should be considering, to speed up my tandem video turnaround? Editing in-camera is exceptionally limiting, but it also allows for very fast turnaround. Personally, I'm editing faster than the very experienced camera guys at our local dropzone who are using a mixer, DVD burner, etc. But I'm a full-time editor, and have built templates, walkin, walkout segments, etc. I've also developed software tools that help me be fast. So, depending on your skill, you might start editing in camera, using the fades/transitions in the cam, and start/stopping the cam to generate edit points, and sending that to a cheap video mix where you have audio input, etc. It'll cost a hell of a lot more than you've invested, but if it can double your speed (I don't know how fast you edit) then it's likely worth the investment. any/all suggestions gratefully received! cheers jon t Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jont 0 #23 June 14, 2006 thanks dse, that's all clear I try to edit as much as possible in-camera, but still need to use Premiere to trim excess footage, add crossfades and stills, and stick in a bit of slo-mo. I am taking the Technika back today, and will research alternatives. Any suggestions for good brands and models of dvd recorders welcome. QuoteIf I do, will I be able to record edited footage from my Sony Vaio laptop via firewire? You should be able to, yes. I do this daily. I'm still puzzled, then, why sony's technical department told me categorically that their dvd recorders will only talk to a camera via firewire, and not to my sony vaio. ah well, off to the shops jon t Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChangoLanzao 0 #24 June 15, 2006 QuoteIf I do, will I be able to record edited footage from my Sony Vaio laptop via firewire? You should be able to, yes. I do this daily. Which DVD recorder are you doing this with?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #25 June 15, 2006 If you're using an external DVD recorder as in a 'set-top' unit, Sony does only talk to the recorder via firewire. But...the computer is firewire out, and Sony DVD Architect sees most of the externals as just that; a DVD burner. If it's an internal DVD burner, it uses a different access, and it's visible in most every DVD authoring tool. Does that clarify a bit for you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
