17

[druspork 0]

Hmm, we've been missing the 4-w technique cutting edge on this forum for a bit. Sooo...

a) mirror or double slot swap (old question but amusing)
b) who solos
c) does the solo change with the mirror
d) do you exit in slot or out of slot to make sure the first page is sorted (into A slots) or something else

The build can be really slow, what are your tips to go beyond this. At the end of all that, what is fastest (it's way quick anyway).

Reasons why would be appreciated!

Hey I could have titled this 5 but 17 will do for now!

Dru

if you havent guessed we are moving from AA to AAA

[pr0ject42 0]

What is your continuity? Mirrors or DSS? Most teams send the back half over on the hops and for the exit, always launch the b-slot so when the block is complete you roll straight into your A slot stuff, in theory to get your faster page in first.

I say try both continuity plans out. Mirrors are fun and pretty easy, but DSS is less memory work for the front half. The key is to train the hell out of the B slot stuff if you are doing DSS.

[AMax 0]

Quote

I say try both continuity plans out.

IMHO, I don't think this is a good idea for a weekend team because the number of training jumps is most likely limited (unless you have a lot of tunnel time to experiment).

My impression that the DSSs become more and more popular - less mental load on front piece.

Hopefully, the pros will provide some input soon.

[Macaw 0]

Quote

a) mirror or double slot swap (old question but amusing)
b) who solos
c) does the solo change with the mirror
d) do you exit in slot or out of slot to make sure the first page is sorted (into A slots) or something else

We do DSS since as mentioned before it's less mental work for the front peice and if you normally jump DSS I suggest that it's better to stick to it.
Who solos? Front piece in our case.
and we exit in b slots so that the first run in a slots allows you to gain speed in the jump.

________________________________________
Life is a series of wonderful opportunities brilliantly disguised as impossible situations.

[blade 0]

French point of vue:

None of the french team I know use the mirror image as their continuity plan so we go for DSS.

The tail piece are alternatively being the solo going above. You can either build a compressed and the solo grip both shoulder of the center or have the solo grip one leg and be gripped by the center on his corresponding shoulder. Both solutions are possible.

The other question about 17 could also be: what technique for the block move itself?
- vertical straight across, having a symetric move from the 3 piece
- rotational solution with the vertical above the piece partner (that means on your left if you re american, on your right if you re french)

Patrick

Patrick

[druspork 0]

We take the mirrors. But I like the concept of DSS.

I'm interested in how you all approach it whether DSS or mirror and who jumps. We trained at UK intermediates with Point hopping, now at AAA it's tail. Seems many teams have IC hopping - but it seems to me they are teams taking DSS (is this right?). Then other teams I see alternating point and tail (what is happening there?)

Generally it seems to me that the block move is going the same way for most top teams - the solo hop is almost a side slide vertical with the move under a side slide the other way. The rest of the piece is aimed at the catch. Or am I missing something?

Dru

[gaillou 0]

Quote

The other question about 17 could also be: what technique for the block move itself?
- vertical straight across, having a symetric move from the 3 piece
- rotational solution with the vertical above the piece partner (that means on your left if you re american, on your right if you re french)

Patrick

no matter the technique if you're fast... it depends of the team feelings I think
I'm ok with you on your other points

Guillaume

French 4-way & 8-way suporter

[blade 0]

I hope that you agree about this with me since we did this block 17 together MANY times !!!

Patrick

[AMax 0]

Teammates arguing about their continuity plan on a public forum?

[gaillou 0]

no teammate anymore... except for 8way...

Guillaume

French 4-way & 8-way suporter

[bob.dino 0]

a) Last year we mirrored. This year we'll probably go to DSS.
b) IC
c) No.
d) In slot.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

a) mirror or double slot swap (old question but amusing)
b) who solos
c) does the solo change with the mirror
d) do you exit in slot or out of slot to make sure the first page is sorted (into A slots) or something else

The build can be really slow, what are your tips to go beyond this. At the end of all that, what is fastest (it's way quick anyway).

a) DSS
b) Point (all our verts have the front piece over)
c) Yes and no, the OC becomes the point, so the point still solos on B moves, but on every other page the point was formerly known as the OC
d) Exit depends on the rest of the dive - either way, it's sweetness


the build can be very fast, for us, the wings of the compressed had to be very conscious of positioning their knees as priority over the front of their bodies, it helped them focus on being in position rather than "getting grips". Also, the move energy has to wait for the key for us, no "leaning" into the block before the top is built.

We do the quartering move rather than straight over the top (everybody participates), the bottom piece has to remember to be aggressive and keep the fall rate fast.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[bob.dino 0]

Quote

You can either build a compressed and the solo grip both shoulder of the center or have the solo grip one leg and be gripped by the center on his corresponding shoulder. Both solutions are possible.

We found it faster to take the second option - particularly because we use what you're calling the rotational solution. It allows OC and the solo flyer to build the top of the block slightly offset.

On the key OC goes at a 45 degree angle and adds fall rate.

[bliston 0]

Dru,

Doing the mirros is fine and worked well for us for 3 years... it's great and faster in many respects, especially if you're not putting up a ton of jumps to train b-slot blocks - just do a bunch of mirror randoms in a tunnel if you have access to one. Giving that you've make this decision, you should have the same person hop each time - this will help your block move as well as your build.

There's certainly validity to exiting so that you finish in As, but it comes at the cost have having a point/tail role switch on exit if you're sticking with mirrors. Everything is a trade off and you should figure out if learning the new exit is worth it.

On the execution, it might help the hopper to just think about doing a deep side slide over the tail (hips over rig), and the tail should think about sharing 1/2 of the move by digging in hard with her/his inside knee and backing up a bit. The keep is to fire hard and stop early, it's easy to over do it...

On the build, have the centers work to build a deep no contact two way with their heads slightly offset towards their piece partners. Then build it outside in - first with their piece partner grips and then the outside center grips only after the front compressed is fully build. This helps the key plan so that that IC only has to pick up her/his grips and check the that the tail's compressed grip is built before keying it. As it builds, point one of the block has a tendency to rotate counter clockwise, having everyone work to not let this happen and happen by not "pre-firing", not having the IC be too hungery for the compressed w/ her/his piece partner, and not having the tail feed her/his leg too agressively to the IC will help. This is important because it sucks for the center if the piece is crowding her/him before the IC can get the move going - a little patience from the piece will make for much faster block times.

Lastly, the top formation is a bitch to fly and gets worse if you hold it. So, do the steps on the build and then key that sucker.

remember the ABCs (Always Be Closing...)

Ben

Mass Defiance 4-wayFS website


sticks!