Mantis Basics

[cybervagrant 0]

Hi Everybody
I just got interested in skydiving and started going to SkyVenture in Orlando. I've been lucky enough to get to watch Pete Allum, Dennis Rooke and Lise Aune, among others, coaching their students before I even knew who they were. All I knew is that I want to be able to fly like they do. Each of them look so relaxed and so smooth, well you know...

I've logged 40 minutes in the tunnel so far. Been working in Mantis for 34 of them. I have focused mostly on centerpoint turns. I am improving slowly. Durning my last time one of the instructors mentioned that my trying to do "professional" turns so soon was jumping over some of the more basic fundementals, although he omitted elaboration futher on that subject beyond achieving a good body position.

So, my question is, in addition to a good arch and being able to stay still in one place, what do you consider the basic Mantis skills? Note that I have a good up/down and am currently working on smoothing out my sideslides.

Whoops, is my ignorance showing again?

[Albatross 0]

The basics of flying are always having a good body position and having the basic movements down. Flying in the tunnel is great and 100 times more valuable for practicing this than jumping but you will also get 100 times mroe out if it with a good coach. There are tons in Orlando spend the $$ and get one

Chris

[cybervagrant 0]

Tunnel time by itself is really more than I can afford, but I do it anyway. I wish, I could pay for a $1,100 Airspeed camp, or even a $500 SkyVenture camp.

I have found plenty of people willing to give advice, and have worked with half a dozen different instructors at the tunnel. The trouble is that they all say different things. I now know several ways to do arm turns, and each person that showed me one says the others are wrong. So, I am now in the process of developing a way that 'works for me.'

Mostly from watching the Airspeed camps, basic mantis skills beyond having a good arch and being able to stay still in one place, seem to be:

1) Up and down.

2) Forward and back.

3) Side to side.

and, my favorite,

4) Centerpoint turns.


More advanced skills seem to include:

A) Moving forward or back while going up or down.

B) Sideslide while going up or down.

C) Sideslide with a 180 degree turn.

and,

D) Moving forward or back while turning to carve a path around a center point.


I notice improvement in my basic skills, as described above, each session. My only really fustrating problem is that I'm having trouble getting a good arch. My knees are a little below my hips, and that's causing some loss of stability.

Following the advise of one of the instructors, I'm doing leg stretches to improve flexibility and practice arches to strengthen my back. These seem to helping a little, but its going to take who knows how much more time and effort before I could say that I have good arch.

Whoops, is my ignorance showing again?

[skybytch 259]

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My only really fustrating problem is that I'm having trouble getting a good arch. My knees are a little below my hips, and that's causing some loss of stability.

I had the same issue; by the final session of a 10 minute block my lower back hurt so bad I couldn't arch for the full two minutes.

I solved the problem with a weight belt and about 9 pounds of lead. No more struggling to arch toward the end of the session, less instability and far less frustration.

Might be worth a try next time you're in the tunnel.

[cybervagrant 0]

Some weight has already been suggested by a friend. She said she had to dearch so much in order to stay level with me that, "Your getting weights next time buddy." She claims she can be on her belly on the the net at 130mph. I have yet to see that, but I have noticed she has a really good upper body arch.

My arch is only slightly bad really. My upper body could be higher, but its workable. My thighs tend to angle down slightly, and I also tend to tuck my lower legs in to far, past straight up.

I've thought that if I stick my lower legs out more they might catch enough air to change the angle of my upper legs. Also, if I get a bootie suit, the booties might help to do the same thing. Ah well, pratice, pratice, pratice

Thanks for the reply,

Cyber

Whoops, is my ignorance showing again?

[YahooLV 0]

Durning my last time one of the instructors mentioned that my trying to do "professional" turns so soon was jumping over some of the more basic fundementals, although he omitted elaboration futher on that subject beyond achieving a good body position.


This seems to be a new problem with the tunnel and beginning skydivers. The "Mantis" has taken over from basic stability and the rookie learning curve to a point where the tunnels might be teaching something that the AFF instructors don't want taught just yet. Learning the mantis isn't a bad thing...just not for beginners and safety issues.


2cents

http://www.curtisglennphotography.com

[AdD 1]

Is it easier to learn to skydive in the tunnel? Yes, obviously. Should you be learning the mantis position right away? I don't really see the point. Get stable and then get chucked out of the plane, learn that boring rw stuff later dude!

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[cybervagrant 0]

Je sais, que je sais rein(I know that I know nothing).

Mantis and RW is awesome. Just floating down in Boxman seems BORING. Freeflying looks OK, although the precision and coordination RW just thrills me.

Cheers,

Cyber

P.S. Hopefully, before I do AFF, I'll be able to afford some more tunnel time to work on my Boxman. Now that I understand the basics, I should be able to make it work better.

Whoops, is my ignorance showing again?

[kallend 1,651]

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Je sais, que je sais rein(I know that I know nothing).

Mantis and RW is awesome. Just floating down in Boxman seems BORING. Freeflying looks OK, although the precision and coordination RW just thrills me.

reply]

4-way is overrated (flames expected).
Try diving out last on a 100 way. Can't practice that in a tunnel.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

• Quote

[daveb 1]

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4-way is overrated (flames expected).
Try diving out last on a 100 way. Can't practice that in a tunnel.

I have: Last out of a 101 jumpers on the lead C-130 on the 357 way. It was alot of fun. But I enjoy 4-way more.

Back on topic: mantis is overrated and over-emphasized. Learn to fly your body. You can do some cool moves (think translations, center point turns, superposition, fall rate changes) while in boxman, with one arm on your helmet, with both arms behind your back, holding your hands together under your neck, stretched out in front like superman, or out to both sides spread-eagle, and other non-mantis positions. Arms are not a flying surface, but a grip aparatus. Learn to use your body and legs; if you are doing RW without booties, you are missing out on some enormous input potential.

The tunnel, while not quite as useful for learning how to dive last on a 100-way, is the single best substitute for hundreds/thousands of jumps.

[UKFSChick 0]

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Try diving out last on a 100 way. Can't practice that in a tunnel.

Nah but you can work out some fairly effective ways of stopping your mega-swoop before you take anyone out. Flying your body is flying your body, and the tunnel definitely helps with that.

[LoudDan 0]

Don't knock VRW (Vertical Relative Work) If you think freeflying can't involve precision, you have been misled.

Building 4,6,and 10+ ways on your head is not only challenging due to the orrientation (less surface area and lets face it, it's harder to fly effectively on your head) but the speed which average over 170 mph.

Don't get me wrong, you should persue what makes you happy, and if 4 way belly is your hook, that's awesome, just don't limit yourself in the future.

Coming soon to a bowl of Wheaties near you!!

[chutem 0]

Never been in the tunnel, only have 19 jumps so what do I know. The boxman won't seem nearly as boreing with the earth rushing at you at 120mph, that is if the rush of jumping out of the plane doesn't overload you to much. Go up and JUMP.
That said I can't wait for the tunnel at eloy, sounds like serious fun/learning/moneysucking.

James

[Mad47 0]

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Can't practice that in a tunnel.

Rob Laidlaw does some big way training in wind tunnel. It is not a joke