rehmwa 2 #1 January 23, 2004 In 20, we're set up with the IC having grips on me (OC). We spin the piece backwards, of course. It doesn't feel snappy, nor very quick. When we switch positions, we can really cook it. I do most all the work with my legs then. Doesn't matter who I'm on since (I've substituted for other teams in this slot and was actually asked to go slower on the repeat so the outside guys could establish the) rythym) Any thoughts on what can make that piece sluggish? I just dig my inside leg and try to let my IC spin it. I'm wondering if I'm doing something to slow it down. I can't see his position normally so I have no info here. Should I be turning, driving legs, or just staying passive? What about my IC? Edit: we shear the 540 and cog the 360 with the 2-way if it matters - would the 540 go over or under? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #2 January 23, 2004 We learned not to snap it anyway. You can spin that thing so fast that it screws the rear. Its best not to snap it. Is your IC pulling you in as he steps forward?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #3 January 23, 2004 QuoteIs your IC pulling you in as he steps forward? He does pull in well on this kind of stuff. "steps forward" That's making me think about how I do it vs how he does it. I think I got it now. We can play with it in the tunnel in April. You ever think about disecting a block or two a week here just for the fun of it? I used to get Skydiving mag and the only thing I ever really read was the brief columns on techniques. Right now, I get most out of the vids on the knights and airspeed, but the sequencing is sometimes so fast as it's hard to see the pauses, etc..... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #4 January 23, 2004 I know, I'm a shameless leech ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #5 January 23, 2004 QuoteYou ever think about disecting a block or two a week here just for the fun of it? Yes, I have thought about it. However its not easy to coach over the internet. And not all groups should do it the same way.. a new team should not try photon like my team does it... So there could be issues...So I just like to answer when a team has issues."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albatross 0 #6 January 23, 2004 I think that Ron has it exactly why worry about a snappy sidebody if the solos are going to be the slow portion of the block. It is much more important to be insink with the sidebody catch thatn to go fast. BE NICE TO YOUR TAIL BIOTCHChris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #7 January 23, 2004 Well, with training this year, I'm hoping to significantly speed up and improve the centering of the turns of my tail. and I believe the point can go a bit faster if we are successful with the tail. Maybe we just want to keep up when she hits her next burst in skill improvement (it's really cool, she's on a great ramp end of last season and, as our least experienced person, it directly impacts the whole performance). Although right now, smooth and centered and syncronized is fast on that block...just like you said. I just want to keep it clean for the ind flyers while enabling everybody to get faster, I'm pretty sure on what we need to do and can test it in the tunnel soon. Thanks ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #8 January 24, 2004 One thing that helped us was having the sidebody piece concentrate more on putting the piece (as it's turning) in the tail's hands, rather than concentrating so hard on the point flyer. Worked really well. Your other comment got me thinking about slot selection, but I guess that's another thread. Suffice it to say, I think the common philosophy of putting the least experienced person on the tail is flawed.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Albatross 0 #9 January 24, 2004 Biker I agree completely on both points. 1st the piece will see the point and the point will have a clear view for most of the last turn. The center ALWAYS tends to build toward the point as that is what is in view. Feed the tail on the leg and then focus ont he point. As for the weakest member on the tail. All I ahve to say is Thomas Huges????Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 January 25, 2004 Hi BB - It's not so much the least experience as it was the best slot for that person's skill set. (I have OC as I'm more still than the others and can make the big turns as good as any, my IC has the best eyes and was the obvious person to run the keys, my point is extremely dynamic with a flexible neck , and my tail is patient and very talented - Frankly, I can't imaging being lucky enough to have these talents and temperaments in this mix, it made slot assignments very easy). Personally, I think that, especially for less experienced teams, that the tail is a very difficult slot as the center doesn't always stay put and, when they do think they need to correct, it's usually to the detriment of the tail - if you know what I mean.... I very much like the idea of fitting the 20 move to focus on the tail's close. We did that at the end of the season and it really cleaned up nicely. I'll focus hard to retain this lesson, especially with all good feedback here. ?? - If experience was your only criteria, where would you put the least experienced person...... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #11 January 26, 2004 oooh, I don't know how to answer that question, since I think choosing a slot has as much to do with personality as it does talent. In a nutshell, a point needs to trust, a tail needs persistence, OC needs self-confidence, and the IC needs leadership ability. It's more complex than that, of course, but it worked well for my team last year. None of us had a lot of 4-way experience, and we ended up with our least experienced person at inside center, and our most experienced on tail. Yeah, you read that right. And we never regretted that decision. Ack! I can't answer your question! Maybe point, since they can be coached to wait to commit to outfacing moves. Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #12 January 26, 2004 Good thing experience isn't the only criteria. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
giffnyc 0 #13 January 29, 2004 IMHO and YMMV, etc... Everyone has their own style! As others have pointed out, snapping the piece turn isn't of much value when the outside folks have some work to get done. Precision in the turn is what helps. It has to stay dead-center-pointed and stop predictably. Trusting the center piece to always be there allows the outside flyers to keep their heads in the right place and minimizes the ad-lib work they have to do. Give them predictable targets every time and trust them to work it closer and faster through the season. The grip-ee in the center piece has very little to do aside from keeping an eye on the point. A little back pressure, a little inside leg, to initiate, then let it be. Too much effort and the center-point is gone. The gripp-er can stage the turn, flying thru the grips, or if more advanced, can carve the full turn. The idea of "feeding" the tail is a little dangerous -- the advice so far is that it has helped center pieces from sliding towards the point and that's good. But the opposite can happen too -- work on center pointing the piece turn and let the outside folks find the targets. Given a weekend team's training schedule, it's generally not a good idea to try to cut off too much of the turn. It usually results in unpredictable finishes that can take time to work out without too much gain. Do the center work, go for a full 360, and let the outside folks work out predictable, tight targets. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #14 January 29, 2004 Nice discussion - we'll still cut off a bit anyway. My point is overshooting the initial move, and that's easily fixed with some vertical drilling. I can carve as the gripper. I'll try a couple other techniques for my IC when he has that job. We might switch the roles too anyway just for that block. As far as my job as the 'grippee' thanks, the specifics is currently what I'm already doing and I needed the validation big time. "keeping an eye on the point. A little back pressure, a little inside leg, to initiate, then let it be" Other than that, I still might want to spare a bigger share of my attention on the tail anyway, but I think the IC owns that job mostly. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
