(AR-)Pilot vs. swooping

[phoenixlpr 0]

I fly a Pilot ~ WL 1.4.

I did only double front riser landing so far.
Its quite hard to bring my canopy to dive, because front riser pressure is quite high.

I've heard/read that slow carving front riser carve is better/more efficient that an aggressive one. I've tried slow 90 degress turn at high, it does not speed up at all.

Any ideas?

[outlawphx 1]

<-- Not a hardcore swooper

I've found that the riser pressure builds up too much doing a really slow carve on my Nitron. After listening to Brian G. on skydive radio, it made some sense why. As the canopy accelerates, it's producing more lift. If you don't have enough bank angle, the lift is pulling the canopy out of the dive. If you start the dive agressively to get significant bank angle and then counter with the opposite riser to control the rotation of the turn, you can make canopies that have high front riser pressure seem to have lower pressure. If you pull the front riser down to maximum point you want right away, it's easy to hold it there throughout the dive, as opposed to trying to continue to pull it further as the canopy starts producing more lift and pulling away from you as you accelerate.

Since I was a little gun shy about entering the dive so aggressively, I did a bunch of 90 to 180 turns up high while watching my altimeter. Then I set up my landing and tacked 100ft on top of what I saw up high for my first attempt. Obviously, it was too high, but I slowly lowered my initiation height. It also built my confidence with being aggressive with the front risers.

Again, YMMV. And talk to a canopy coach, because everyone on the web is crazy and full of sh*t

[Pendragon 1]

I learnt to swoop on a Pilot at that wingloading, it was a 150.

Oh, it speeds up alright. Take it easy; you can still hurt yourself. I managed to sprain both ankles badly on a 90 degree turn on my pilot150 and was hobbling around for 3 days so don't think for one minute that this is anything other than a serious wingloading.

I would start with 45 degree front riser turns as it is very easy to bail (both toggles) or just complete the turn on the toggle should you find yourself a little low. Get those consistantly right on landing THEN move onto 90s. I wouldn't bother too much with double-fronts; all that happens is that you effectively fold the wing and kill the glide; you don't really get anything out of it.

The recovery arc is quite shallow on a Pilot, so initiation heights may sound a little low... but they're not that low! Start high; measure the height you lose in the dive until plane out; add 100ft to this and try that. What you will find is that your measurements at altitude will probably be erroneous; the canopy dives then, as it recovers, may gain height - so the measurement you make will be too small (hence adding the additional 100ft when you bring the turn closer to the ground). Even if you end up planing out 100ft too high, don't initiate the turn 100ft lower - you will be too low! Take it in stages, say reduce it by 30ft in this example. See where you end up. When you actually find the right point, you'll see how the canopy has sped up so don't try to up the rotation just because you're not getting any sensation of speed.

I did find however that it wasn't worth doing a greater rotation than 180 on the canopy at that wingloading. However, once you've really mastered that (which will probably take 200 jumps or so), then you may be ready for a downsize / change and a repeat of the whole thing again (yup, right from the 45s). I had my Pilot 150 for 350 jumps, of which 250 or so were high performance landings of some description, then I got a Safire2 129.

Do seek advice locally though. It is so easy to make mistakes and inadvertantly get into bad habits and hurt yourself - "even at 1.4 on a Pilot".

Stay safe,,,

--
BASE #1182
Muff #3573
PFI #52; UK WSI #13

[AggieDave 6]

Firstly, seek local advice from experienced swoopers who watch you land. With that said, always learn from everyone you can, even over the internet, but it helps to have someone who has been there learning to watch and help.

Secondly, check your control lines, make sure you're not deflecting the tail when you pull down on the risers. That will greatly increase the riser pressure as well as other not so great things.

I didn't find the Pilot I jumped to have that bad of riser pressure. It was a 190 loaded at 1.3-1.4, though.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[chopchop 0]

Although I load my Pilots a lot more than you load yours, I do not find the riser pressure high at all. There are ways to unload the riser you are going to pull but talk to a canopy coach about that as I really want someone to watch you as you learn as opposed to telling you how to do it and you going it on your own..

Also, I think you may be misjudging whether your canopy is speeding up or not when you do the carve up high. my bet is it is, you just don't have any way to judge it.

Fially, make sure your brake lines are long enough such that you can pull on your risers without deflecting your tail as this shortens the recovery arc even more and makes it more difficult to pull down the risers.

Good luck. get coaching!

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[phoenixlpr 0]

Thanks for your answer!

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Also, I think you may be misjudging whether your canopy is speeding up or not when you do the carve up high. my bet is it is, you just don't have any way to judge it.

I don't think so. I can hear the difference. My canopy is quite loud after 4-6 sec of double fronts, but silent after a nice, slow, 90degrees carving turn.

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Fially, make sure your brake lines are long enough such that you can pull on your risers without deflecting your tail as this shortens the recovery arc even more and makes it more difficult to pull down the risers.

Too long or too short? That's a good question. I can fly as long in the deepest breaks as I want to, I can not stall with toggles.