shadowswoop97 0 #1 June 30, 2004 Is there a difference in front riser pressure between a Xaos, VX, or Velocity. Does a particular crossed brace of those three have a higher risk of collapsing in regular or low speed flight due to the front riser pressure than another. Such as the incident in st. Louis under a Xaos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygod7777 0 #2 June 30, 2004 QuoteIs there a difference in front riser pressure between a Xaos, VX, or Velocity. Does a particular crossed brace of those three have a higher risk of collapsing in regular or low speed flight due to the front riser pressure than another. Such as the incident in st. Louis under a Xaos your first question i can answer for sure. the vx is the heaviest out of all of them, hands down. then the xaos 27 then the velo's i can't be sure on the xaos 21's because i've never jumped one of those. later Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
breadhead 0 #3 June 30, 2004 QuoteDoes a particular crossed brace of those three have a higher risk of collapsing AFAIK, the canopy that is trimmed the flattest, is more sensitive to collapse than a canopy that is trimmed a little steeper. So, theoretically, the Velocity would be less sensitive to collapse than the VX/Xaos. I'm not sure about VX versus Xaos, but I would completely trust those two canopies just the same. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bogwarrior 0 #4 June 30, 2004 what happened in St. Louis ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shadowswoop97 0 #5 June 30, 2004 go under incidents and then deaths . It was noted on the 27th. A Xaos wingloaded at 2.1 was coming in on its final approach, and the left side of the parachute folded under causing it to collapse and spiral to the ground. The approach was straight in, and there were no radical or extreme imputs. Not sure what factors play a part in the collapsing. We lost a great friend, and don't know why, Shadow Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumperconway 0 #6 June 30, 2004 QuoteQuoteIs there a difference in front riser pressure between a Xaos, VX, or Velocity. Does a particular crossed brace of those three have a higher risk of collapsing in regular or low speed flight due to the front riser pressure than another. Such as the incident in st. Louis under a Xaos your first question i can answer for sure. the vx is the heaviest out of all of them, hands down. then the xaos 27 then the velo's i can't be sure on the xaos 21's because i've never jumped one of those. My Xaos 27-79 has much lighter front riser pressure than either the velo or vx! My 21-88 is a little higher and my 21-85 is about the same as my 79. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites garywainwright 0 #7 June 30, 2004 I have some experience on an FX109 and Xaos21-108. The Xaos riser pressure was much lighter (apparently one of the advantages of non cascaded lines). The Velocity 111 seems lighter than both of these and the 103 is definately lighter. The only VX i have jumped is a 104 and was very heavy.http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GeeeeeeFly 0 #8 June 30, 2004 Do you think the Velocity is trimmed at stepper angle of attack than the VX? ~G~ "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ManBird 0 #9 June 30, 2004 QuoteDo you think the Velocity is trimmed at stepper angle of attack than the VX?Yes."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites namdrib 0 #10 June 30, 2004 I have recently ventured into the world of Cross-Braced canopies with the Xaos. As for the Riser pressure, I did not notice much difference between that and the Stiletto. HOWEVER, there is a bunch of difference in the Toggle pressure. Seems the Xaos has a much heavier toggle pressure than my Stiletto. This might be an obvious difference by some, but I don't understand it.Unknowing attempting to take out all 4 wheeled vehicles remotely close to the landing area! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RMURRAY 1 #11 June 30, 2004 All I know is my VX at about 2.2:1 is very heavy in front risers. Rears are light. Managable however, especially if you use the harness for the last part of a carving 270. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kaerock 1 #12 July 1, 2004 Could this possibly have to do with wing-loading and speed at with which you're using toggles to flare? If you've got a higher loading on your x-brace, you're going faster than your Stiletto...this would lend itself to causing more force necessary to deflect the wing as well as having to counteract the increased lift due to that speed. On a related note, front risers are impossible to hold down at some point when extending a dive...eventually you'll have so much speed, causing so much lift that your body strength is less than the force of lift. Just some speculation on observations...perhaps someone can drop some real fizzix. :> -R QuoteI have recently ventured into the world of Cross-Braced canopies with the Xaos. As for the Riser pressure, I did not notice much difference between that and the Stiletto. HOWEVER, there is a bunch of difference in the Toggle pressure. Seems the Xaos has a much heavier toggle pressure than my Stiletto. This might be an obvious difference by some, but I don't understand it. You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kaerock 1 #13 July 1, 2004 Right, but why do you think the steeper trim makes it less susceptible to collapses? If you take two canopies of the exact same size and exact same planform, but trim them differently, they will have different glide rates. The steeper one will be faster. Generally when you have more speed you seem less susceptible to gusts and funky winds. Also, the canopy is highly pressurized as the pressure on the front cell-openings is higher than say, at a canopy flying near it's stall point..here is more RAM in your AIR :> When your wing is stiffer, you're less likely to have it go limp and put you into an uncontrollable state. This is also why we teach people to fly at full speed, rather than being braked in gusty situations. Perhaps someone can articulate better than I would, why having a higher forward speed seems to make you less affected my squirrely winds. It's a feeling akin to "slicing through it", you spend less time in the pocket of "bad air". -R QuoteQuoteDoes a particular crossed brace of those three have a higher risk of collapsing AFAIK, the canopy that is trimmed the flattest, is more sensitive to collapse than a canopy that is trimmed a little steeper. So, theoretically, the Velocity would be less sensitive to collapse than the VX/Xaos. I'm not sure about VX versus Xaos, but I would completely trust those two canopies just the same. You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AggieDave 6 #14 July 1, 2004 QuoteGenerally when you have more speed you seem less susceptible to gusts and funky winds. Radically changing the shape of your airfoil in those conditions isn't truely wise, though. A moderately agressive front riser manuever combined with a weird gust or rotar could spell disaster. You know when I feel most stable under canopy in weird winds? When I'm doing a tandem, all of that mass moving through the air. Think of it like a 727 coming in to land compared to a 182.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kaerock 1 #15 July 1, 2004 Absolutely. If you were to hit some really bad chop at a higher speed, you may make it through, or, you may screw yourself faster than you can get yourself out of it. But also, a 727 is a LOT faster than a 182 on landing..but yay for inertia! -R QuoteQuoteGenerally when you have more speed you seem less susceptible to gusts and funky winds. Radically changing the shape of your airfoil in those conditions isn't truely wise, though. A moderately agressive front riser manuever combined with a weird gust or rotar could spell disaster. You know when I feel most stable under canopy in weird winds? When I'm doing a tandem, all of that mass moving through the air. Think of it like a 727 coming in to land compared to a 182. You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
garywainwright 0 #7 June 30, 2004 I have some experience on an FX109 and Xaos21-108. The Xaos riser pressure was much lighter (apparently one of the advantages of non cascaded lines). The Velocity 111 seems lighter than both of these and the 103 is definately lighter. The only VX i have jumped is a 104 and was very heavy.http://www.garywainwright.co.uk Instagram gary_wainwright_uk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeeeeeeFly 0 #8 June 30, 2004 Do you think the Velocity is trimmed at stepper angle of attack than the VX? ~G~ "The edge ... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who know where it is are those that have gone over" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ManBird 0 #9 June 30, 2004 QuoteDo you think the Velocity is trimmed at stepper angle of attack than the VX?Yes."¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
namdrib 0 #10 June 30, 2004 I have recently ventured into the world of Cross-Braced canopies with the Xaos. As for the Riser pressure, I did not notice much difference between that and the Stiletto. HOWEVER, there is a bunch of difference in the Toggle pressure. Seems the Xaos has a much heavier toggle pressure than my Stiletto. This might be an obvious difference by some, but I don't understand it.Unknowing attempting to take out all 4 wheeled vehicles remotely close to the landing area! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #11 June 30, 2004 All I know is my VX at about 2.2:1 is very heavy in front risers. Rears are light. Managable however, especially if you use the harness for the last part of a carving 270. rm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaerock 1 #12 July 1, 2004 Could this possibly have to do with wing-loading and speed at with which you're using toggles to flare? If you've got a higher loading on your x-brace, you're going faster than your Stiletto...this would lend itself to causing more force necessary to deflect the wing as well as having to counteract the increased lift due to that speed. On a related note, front risers are impossible to hold down at some point when extending a dive...eventually you'll have so much speed, causing so much lift that your body strength is less than the force of lift. Just some speculation on observations...perhaps someone can drop some real fizzix. :> -R QuoteI have recently ventured into the world of Cross-Braced canopies with the Xaos. As for the Riser pressure, I did not notice much difference between that and the Stiletto. HOWEVER, there is a bunch of difference in the Toggle pressure. Seems the Xaos has a much heavier toggle pressure than my Stiletto. This might be an obvious difference by some, but I don't understand it. You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaerock 1 #13 July 1, 2004 Right, but why do you think the steeper trim makes it less susceptible to collapses? If you take two canopies of the exact same size and exact same planform, but trim them differently, they will have different glide rates. The steeper one will be faster. Generally when you have more speed you seem less susceptible to gusts and funky winds. Also, the canopy is highly pressurized as the pressure on the front cell-openings is higher than say, at a canopy flying near it's stall point..here is more RAM in your AIR :> When your wing is stiffer, you're less likely to have it go limp and put you into an uncontrollable state. This is also why we teach people to fly at full speed, rather than being braked in gusty situations. Perhaps someone can articulate better than I would, why having a higher forward speed seems to make you less affected my squirrely winds. It's a feeling akin to "slicing through it", you spend less time in the pocket of "bad air". -R QuoteQuoteDoes a particular crossed brace of those three have a higher risk of collapsing AFAIK, the canopy that is trimmed the flattest, is more sensitive to collapse than a canopy that is trimmed a little steeper. So, theoretically, the Velocity would be less sensitive to collapse than the VX/Xaos. I'm not sure about VX versus Xaos, but I would completely trust those two canopies just the same. You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #14 July 1, 2004 QuoteGenerally when you have more speed you seem less susceptible to gusts and funky winds. Radically changing the shape of your airfoil in those conditions isn't truely wise, though. A moderately agressive front riser manuever combined with a weird gust or rotar could spell disaster. You know when I feel most stable under canopy in weird winds? When I'm doing a tandem, all of that mass moving through the air. Think of it like a 727 coming in to land compared to a 182.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kaerock 1 #15 July 1, 2004 Absolutely. If you were to hit some really bad chop at a higher speed, you may make it through, or, you may screw yourself faster than you can get yourself out of it. But also, a 727 is a LOT faster than a 182 on landing..but yay for inertia! -R QuoteQuoteGenerally when you have more speed you seem less susceptible to gusts and funky winds. Radically changing the shape of your airfoil in those conditions isn't truely wise, though. A moderately agressive front riser manuever combined with a weird gust or rotar could spell disaster. You know when I feel most stable under canopy in weird winds? When I'm doing a tandem, all of that mass moving through the air. Think of it like a 727 coming in to land compared to a 182. You be the king and I'll overthrow your government. --KRS-ONE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
