comparison- vengence and stilletos

[fedykin 0]

im jumping a stiletto 135 now and in about a year im going to downsize/ change canopies. either a 120 stiletto or a vengence of one size or another.

what has anyone noticed about the real handling differences between stilettos and vengences ie.. recov arcs, flare, openiing. is it worth the extra hassle ie..packing volume, opennings and all the palava associated with a really high performance canopy

cheers

[Samurai136 0]

Buy a Samurai instead of the Vengeance.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[garywainwright 0]

Read the manuals on PDs website. They have direct comaprisons. I have no experience of the vengeance but i saw an article on Pier ltds website that said the stiletto is more high performance - most people downsize from their stiletto when buying one though.

http://www.garywainwright.co.uk

Instagram gary_wainwright_uk

[ramon 0]

The first thing PD recommends is that someone try one size smaller vengeance thatn the size stilleot they are jumping.

This is probably becasue the vengeance is not as snappy in the toggles as a stilleto and if you fly the same size it could appear awkward.

The vengeance is as high an aspect ratio canopy as the highest aspect ratio velocity (velocities of different sizes have different aspect ratios). The vengeance will have a very slowe stall speed compared to a stilleto becasue of this.

In general the vengeance likes to dive very much. The riser pressure is lighter and if you are used to a stilletoo and do a hard snap hook on a vengeance wyou will be taken on a diving ride similar to a cross brace (I have seen someone unfamiliar with this almost kill themselves).

I can hook my Vengeance 135 from 400-350 feet and stay in the dive before I plane out. They dive very hard.

I would not recommend on to someone that does not intetend to hook hard and dive at the ground. If you prefer to carve gently a samurai or better yet a competition cobalt might fit your needs.

A stock vengeance has toggle settings very tight like a stilleto, but it will still dive. It has a negative recovery arc so that positive toggle input must be initiated to pull out of a shallow dive that the canopy will recover to after a steep dive. In other words it will not recover to normal flight (it will eventually ..but) or recover to a positive flat flight like a stilleto.

They are good canopies for getting used to very fast dives if you eventually want to jump a much smaller canopy.

Because they dive so much from hard turns they can be very dangerous for someone that is not ready for one.

PM me if you want more. They are easy to swoop far but there are better canopies... but if you want a big non cross braced canopy that swoops decently they are good that that.

ramon

"Revolution is an abrupt change in the form of misgovernment.", Ambrose Bierce.

[bclark 0]

I have jumped both the Stiletto and the Vengeance. I own a Stiletto 120 and love it. I jumped a Vengeance 120 and found it to have horribly unpredictable openings ( off heading like a mutha ) and a very steep glide ratio. I suppose one could get used to the flight characteristics, and even like them, but the openings SUCK. I demo'd a Samurai 120 and found that I liked it MUCH more than the Vengeance, but am still a die hard Stiletto driver.

[blu 0]

I fly a vengeance 107 and i must say it does dive like crazy if you do snappy hook turns and the front riser pressure will tend to get a little hard on slow carving turns but not as much as a velocity. I've never had any troubles on openings ( heading always good) but it does depend on how you pack it ( i've had a couple of hard openings not packed by myself) i've landed it on a 17 k downwind ( unintentional of course ) and it held the swoop till the end, and i've also found it to be very forgiving on low turns. you definetly have to try both the vengeance and the samurai to see wiich one you like best...good luck

blu

***Keep it fun, stay alive***
Safe swoops
Azul
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[jurgencamps 0]

I jumped a stiletto 135 (500 jumps) and have now a vengeance 120 (800 jumps)

I'm very happy with the canopy, great openings, very good swoops, but if you need to you can make very flat turns and land it on a very small spot.
The canopy likes sloppy packing, do not pack it too neatly, because otherwise this will give you unpredictable openings.
Airlocked or not, it is a great canopy.

Jurgen

[miller 0]

Since I started jumping ellipticals:
Stiletto 120-600 jumps
Stiletto 107-200 jumps
Vengance 120-200 jumps
Vengance 107-250 jumps

Comparing same size canopies, the Vengance has slighly faster forward speed, very similar, if not better glide, more dive, longer recovery arc.

I had opening issues with my 120 when I first got it. It was shoved in a container that was built for a non-airlocked 120. However, after I switched it out to a slightly larger container, openings got much better. My 107 opens much better than my 120, though. Both of mine tend to open a little quirky now and then, but nothing too out of the ordinary.

I'd say they pack one size bigger than a stiletto, but I don't think the airlocks really affect packing. If you're used to a Stiletto 135, a Vengance 120 wouldn't be too much different.

I think the most noticeable difference between the Stiletto and Vengance is in the flair. I feel (just one man's opinion) that the Vengance has a much better bottom end flair, and will slow you down much better towards the end of a swoop. However, I don't think that you get too much more distance out of a Vengance than you do a Stiletto.

If you're used to a Stiletto 135, demo a Vengance 120. If you have the experience, I think PD's advice of stepping down one size is pretty good.

BTW I could care less about airlocks. I just like the way the Vengance flies. If it's like that because of airlocks, great, whatever. If it flew and landed like it does without airlocks, I would have still bought them. I personally wouldn't base my decision to buy a canopy on airlocks.

My (more than) two cents.

Mike

[Pablito 0]

I jump a Samurai 111 Signature series by Bryan. Its a incredible wing.
THe stall speed on airlock canopies tent to be slower (that's what I've notice in my Vengance 135, 120 and Jedei 136 and Samurai 120, 111 and 105) I Have several jumps on a Stiletto 120 and it is a really nice wing, The Recovery arc is Positive, riser presure is a bit higher than the Vengance and the Samurai.
I will recomend the Samurai Over the Vengance because the lines are shorter than a same size Vengance and It gives you a bit more sence of speed. and It seems to be a bit faster than the vengance. Beside being more responsive to harness turns.
Just my 2 cents

"If you don't overcome your fears they will overcome you first"
Shady Monkey/6Segundos Rodriguez/AKA Pablito

[nicknitro71 0]

I jump a Viper 135 that flies very much like a Stiletto of the same size with a bit flatter glide and a bit more flare power. Anyhow I only junped a Vengence 135 ONCE so what I can tell you is very limited. The vengence felt like a 150 compare to my Viper. Everything was slower, speed, turns, much less flare power. It opened really nice though. Nice canopy overall but it just felt big and sluggish. The same day and the previous one I jumped a Samurai 120 and that felt more like a 105 than a 120; friking fast! I was told that the samurai 120 is much faster than a stiletto or viper of the same size. I bowtied the Sam on my first landing because I treated it like my viper, i.e. you cannot flare all the way! The second landing was probably the best and the longest one I've had so far. I just planed it out and use about two extra inches to flare it. Nice canopy just a bit too fast for me now. By the way the I load the 135 a bit less than 1.3 and the 120 about 1.45.

Cool

Memento Audere Semper

903

[1234hutch 0]

I too suggest teh humble Samrai 120 or 107 @ 1.4 +