Xaos Line twist

[skydiven4fun 0]

Hi everyone, I just got a new 120 Xaos, I have only been able to jump it for 2 weekend and I am having the same problems with the line twist. out of 17 jumps 5 with line twist, One I thought that I ws gonna have to get rid of, but was able to kick out of it before I was too low. It seems that I am not alone with this probelm from what I have been reading. I really love the canopy and the way it flies. I just hope that I can correct these problems with the line twist. I really do not feel like searching through the woods for it.
any help would be appreciated.

Still here after all these years

Clayton

[freeflyguy 0]

I went through that with mine. Now, with carefull packing it almost never happens

Just flake it out. I just quarter the slider, let the nose hang, don't shove it into the pack job or anything.

What I think was causing line twists, is I would wrap the tail non symetrical. One side would pull more than the other. So now, I make sure when I wrap it, I don't go wild and get it tight, I make sure I don't get the nose in the wrap, and make sure it wraps even with the label. That and leaving a good 18 inches of lines after the last stow.

Also, when I deploy. I get good and square, pitch, and don't even look at it, until I feel it good and out of the bag, then I go right to rears, and look for what I might have to do.

Seldom get a twist now. I did have one on thursday, but it was packed by my rigger who just did my reserve
Nice canopy.

----------------------------
bzzzz

[Kirils 1]

I get the best openings on my Xaos21 when I keep the packing simple. I just walk the lines. shake the canopy, throw the "D's" in the center and finish with a Psycho pack. I use very small rubber bands and don't double stow anything. I've had twists a few times, but the canopy spun on it's own and corrected the problem. Unlike other elipticals I've flown, the Xaos flies best without me steering through the opening or doing some exotic packing trick.

"Slow down! You are too young
to be moving that fast!"

Old Man Crawfish

[diveout 0]

I have 300+ jumps on my 125. I also psycho-pack, also small rubber bands, single-stow everything. I've had line twist three or four times, never spinnning, and only ever on sub-terminal openings.

I found that my canopy settled down after about 50 or 60 jumps -the openings became really predictable and smooth. I think it was a combination of getting used to packing it, flying right through the deployment...by the way I'm loaded at 2:1

Anyway- My xaos is the best opeing canopy I've ever flown, try a psycho pack, what could it hurt? I psycho packed my stiletto 150 for 400 jumps, never had to chop.

[hookit 0]

I fly a Xaos 104 loaded around 1.9. I downsized from a 120 sq. ft. canopy to the Xaos and originally had issues with linetwists. I found I had a tendency to sit unevenly in the harness (I sat heavier on my left hip than my right) which was causing the canopy to spin while opening. Since correcting this I've had VERY few linetwists in about 250 jumps on the canopy.

I would be curious to know if the Xaos you're now flying is smaller than your previous canopy. If so then it could very well be that any poor body-position habits you have are just now coming to light because you're under a more highly loaded canopy.

Also do all of your linetwists tend to be in the same direction? For me the canopy always spun up in the same direction and that, IMO, was evidence of consistently poor body position. (Although, I'm sure some would argue that it could be evidence of consistently poor packing.)

Good luck!

-Trey

[skydiven4fun 0]

Yes I down sized from a 150 Diablo which I was wingloading at about 1.7 I never had any problems with that canopy in over 400 jumps other then a cut away due to a break line coming unstowed on opening.( It got hung up on the slider and when the other break was released still kept spinning hard ) I still use that canopy for my wing suite. And I am sure That with me loading this canopy as much as I am that any bad body position habits are going to come to light. To be honest though I do not really remember if all of my line twist were in the same direction.

Still here after all these years

Clayton

[parachutist 1]

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And I am sure That with me loading this canopy as much as I am that any bad body position habits are going to come to light.

It's not sufficient for you to assume a good body position and then deploy. You must guide the opening of a highly loaded elliptical canopy. Many people just delpoy and pray for a good opening... but this does not work very well.

Simply holding your body position while deploying your pilot chute and then expecting an on-heading opening to be the result would be the same as: Sitting on a bicycle in your garage... sitting straight up and raising your feet, expecting that since you're sitting straight up the bike will not fall over. Neither one of these ideas will work

Once the bicycle is rolling you can sit straight up and not need your feet on the ground. Similarly, once your canopy is open and flying you can fly it without worrying about unexpected dives to the right or left. But until it is fully open you must guide it:

When the canopy is opening look straight ahead at the horizon and when you notice that your left side is getting a little higher than the right... "sit" more on the left side to pull it back down even with the right... continue to use this method to keep the horizon level and your canopy will open without line twists... even if it was a pretty trashy pack job.

Chris Warnock

[TB99 0]

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when you notice that your left side is getting a little higher than the right... "sit" more on the left side to pull it back down even with the right... continue to use this method to keep the horizon level and your canopy will open without line twists

Be careful, people have a tendancy to try and "fly" their openings and end up doing more bad than good by overcorrecting. Best thing to do is just let the canopy do it's thing on it's own and you just sit there lookin at the horizon ejoying the ride. I don't do a thing until my slider is down, including trying to "steer" my canopy while it's opening (which is essentially what you're doing with your body input).

Trailer 11/12 was the best. Thanks for the memories ... you guys rocked!

[parachutist 1]

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Be careful, people have a tendancy to try and "fly" their openings and end up doing more bad than good by overcorrecting.

practice, practice, practice.
The more experience you have with guiding an opening canopy, the more exact your movements will be.

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Best thing to do is just let the canopy do it's thing on it's own and you just sit there lookin at the horizon ejoying the ride. I don't do a thing until my slider is down, including trying to "steer" my canopy while it's opening (which is essentially what you're doing with your body input).

You're flying a nearly square canopy according to your profile, and your method is quite acceptable when flying a Sabre 1 or 2, however, Highly loaded ellipticals behave very differently.

Chris Warnock

[Kris 0]

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Be careful, people have a tendancy to try and "fly" their openings and end up doing more bad than good by overcorrecting. Best thing to do is just let the canopy do it's thing on it's own and you just sit there lookin at the horizon ejoying the ride. I don't do a thing until my slider is down, including trying to "steer" my canopy while it's opening (which is essentially what you're doing with your body input).

Not a good idea. Some higher loaded canopies can get away from a pilot rather quickly on a quirky opening if they are not flown on the opening.

If a person is using too much force to try and guide the canopy during the opening then they need to learn how to be a bit more gentle and use more finesse.

Another factor to consider is raw safety. If I'm on a dive with a lot of bodies in the air it is imperative that my canopy stay on-heading during the opening. If I have to bring my Stiletto back to center with a little harness input, I will do so. Collisions suck.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[crazy 0]

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Be careful, people have a tendancy to try and "fly" their openings and end up doing more bad than good by overcorrecting.

I completely agree. Focusing on "flying the canopy during the opening" makes it more difficult to estimate the appropriate input. In addition it can induce delays in the reactions and make things worse. Focusing on the stability of the body allows much faster and accurate reactions.
This is just my opinion and i have never jumped a x-braced.

bb

--
Come
Skydive Asia

[garywainwright 0]

I think the point that Skydiven4fun is trying to make is why is he having these problems now when he's done many jumps on a highly loaded canopy before without problems.
I tried to make the same point about my Xaos. I have 1400 jumps on stilettos loaded at 1.7 - 1.9 and never cutaway and extremely rarely had line twists. In 300 jumps on my Xaos (loaded at 2.1) I've chopped it 4 times because of line twists - and yet there is a full page advert saying its the best opening canopy they've made! I'm not saying I'm not doing something wrong - but wouldn't i have had a problem on a highly loaded stiletto? (lots of people don't like stiletto openings and PD certainly don't claim that the openings are fantastic!)

http://www.garywainwright.co.uk

Instagram gary_wainwright_uk

[bobsoutar 0]

There is a big difference between a Diablo and a Xaos. Guys who fix a heading on the horizon are subconsciously making slight adjustments which control the canopy through opening. The secret to doing this is to relax through the opening process so that there isn't a sudden jerky input - just smooth little corrections.

FWIW, I found twists were usually caused by being asymetrical on the pull (hand above head and other one pulling) and being lazy about getting shoulders level again. I now get my hands level with my temples ready to tap the risers outwards (to straighted up the canopy if it starts to turn off heading) which also levels up my shoulders etc. at the same time.

[Spy38W 0]

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I get the best openings on my Xaos21 when I keep the packing simple. I just walk the lines. shake the canopy, throw the "D's" in the center and finish with a Psycho pack. I use very small rubber bands and don't double stow anything.

Same thing I was doing on the 108 @ 1.85 Nothing but amazingly soft and long openings and it stayed on heading. Waiting for my 21-100 to come in now.

--
Hook high, flare on time

[Unutsch 0]

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Guys who fix a heading on the horizon are subconsciously making slight adjustments which control the canopy through opening. The secret to doing this is to relax through the opening process so that there isn't a sudden jerky input - just smooth little corrections.

FWIW, I found twists were usually caused by being asymetrical on the pull (hand above head and other one pulling) and being lazy about getting shoulders level again. I now get my hands level with my temples ready to tap the risers outwards (to straighted up the canopy if it starts to turn off heading) which also levels up my shoulders etc. at the same time.

couldn't agree more... i jump an Ace (AtAir; in the states Viper) 100 @ app. 1,65, and when ever I had a linetwist, it was due to my poor body position in the harnes: either my whole body was asymetrical, or only my shoulders... I corrected this by taking a second before the pull to relax, breath in, breath out... and when the canopy stands me up, I look strait forward, and just touch (not grabbing) the risers, to check for possible line twists...
works for me...

Check out the site of the Fallen Angels FreeflY Organisation:
http://www.padliangeli.org

[Watcher 0]

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I look strait forward, and just touch (not grabbing) the risers, to check for possible line twists...
works for me...

I just wanted to state that it is a very different expirence with a closed nosed canopy. Before I learned not to touch the risers but to just look out straight at the horizon to keep balanced I often look up at the canopy. With a closed nose canopy not being symetrical in the harness as a big effect and without the reference of the horizon (IE you are looking up) you can over correct. On my 2 cutaways it came out perfectly from the bag, no problems at all, but 2 seconds in the snivel the canaopy started to oscillate back and forth, some people call this "seeking" for a heading. So as the slider was about 1/2 to 3/4 of the way down then the canopy took off diving over my left shoulder, now you have a few line twist in, atleast for me, an uncontrolable dive, momentum was keeping me from flipping back over.

So my point is line twist do not always happen right out of the bag so tapping the risers immediatly is not going to do anything, the tendancy to spin while in the snivel stage is an aspect that is part of a closed nose/ Xbraced canopy that is not seen much in simple ellipticals. So good enough body position on said ellipiticals might not be good enough on a Xbraced canopy as I personally came to find out.
Harness pressure seems to be everything with these canopies on opening. I personally look out at the horizon hold my arms straight out for balance and just relax until I can tell the canopy is open and flying. Any steering due to canopy traffic in those first seconds just as it opens can be accomplished with harness input to avoid collisions.

[jumperconway 0]

I have a Xaos 84' loaded at 2.26/1 that is at Prec. getting a reline. It had the dynema lines way out of trim. The openings were always different but rarely twisted up until I accidently unstowed the left brake line twice in one day trying to steer the opening! Talk about totally spun up, it was an OH SHIT opening both times but I was able to stop the spins by grabbing the left rear riser. Last weekend I borrowed an 80 with the Hma lines and the only the only off heading opening I had in 16 jumps in 3 days, I didn't track before pulling! I normally dump in a full track with no problem and soft on heading openings! The horizon view is the most important thing I think. If I watch the opening, it will probably do something weird, but if I just stay parrallel with the horizon, no excitement! I also pull the center cell out a little and push the slider towards the tail to let the center cell inflate first. Works for me anyway.
Hope this helps,
Con 1079

[skydiven4fun 0]

Well it seems like one thing that almost everyone has agreed on is keeping a fix on the horizon and maintaining good body position. I will be coming in from Offshore on the 11th and will have 4 weeks off work for christmas, I want to thank everyone that has provided me with information and replied to my post. I have something to work on and with 4 weeks of jumping I am sure that I will be able to work through this. I definitly will have a better idea of what to look for and to do concerning packing and body position. This being my first cross braced canopy, I wanted to take advantage of every one elses experiences with the xaos. I will be sure to update this post as to what has or has not worked for me.

Still here after all these years

Clayton