udder 0 #1 December 21, 2001 Could someone please explain the reason for having different flares, I thought all canopies would flare better on a single movement flare than a 2-stage flare because it would generate more lift(resistance to forward air movement)Do flaring styles vary in higher performance canopies(like the fx) Sorry to ask shite questions like this but i am just interested(and too poor to afford a canopy made this century)Peder"I would sell myself for sex, if only i got more than a penny and hour......." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #2 December 21, 2001 If you flared most canopies with a one-stage flare, the canopy would level off, then begin ascending again, giving you a hard landing. With a 2 stage flare, you get the canopy to level out, then gradually add more brakes to keep you just off the ground while scrubbing off speed to land nicely. I like my women like I like my coffee - hot and with a spoon in Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkymonkeyONE 3 #3 December 21, 2001 QuoteIf you flared most canopies with a one-stage flare...Well, not MOST canopies, but certainly most of the small ZP elipticals. A one-stage flare will work on most canopies, so long as you are doing a straight-in approach without any speed-producing turns. Todays more efficient airfoils will generally float across the ground faster and farther, thus the reason for the two-stage flare employed on those canopies. Phase one levels the canopy out and is used to scrub off speed. Phase two stops the canopy without having it climb back up into the air higher than you can step out of. ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #4 December 21, 2001 I've seen one of my friends do a one stage flare on a manta and go up about 15', then land hard. I like my women like I like my coffee - hot and with a spoon in Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jfields 0 #5 December 21, 2001 When I went from huge student F-111s (@<1:1) to my Sabre at 1.1:1, boy was the flare different! I did 1-stage on the student gear and tried to do the same with my Sabre. I kept bouncing back upwards then falling like 5-15 feet to the ground. With PLFs, I was fine, but I somehow knew that this wasn't how it was supposed to work. Things finally "clicked" for me and I started doing more of a two-stage flare. The first part brakes most of my vertical descent. Then I gradually increase the flare as I bleed off speed. Even on my big (190) non-eliptical canopy, I'm starting to be able to skim across the ground a little bit before touching and landing. It works pretty well for me.I'm sure the canopy gurus and swoopers could give better explanations of exactly what is going on during a landing.JustinMy Homepage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rendezvous 0 #6 December 21, 2001 In a two stage flare about how much much toggle input should the first stage consume. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #7 December 21, 2001 t depends on the canopy,the end of the first stage should have swung you out and straight under the canopy. The second one just kills your forward speed.Think of it as being on a swing set, the entire time you are really about a foot or two pulled back, now on the first stage of the flare you want to move your body to straight down. When you hit the toggles it moves your body out under the canopy like a pendilum. Too little and the canopy is still diving as you surf, to much input and your body now swings up.This is done by feel. Don't lock your self into going to just a certian limit and nothing more or less. On warmer days this "Sweet Spot" will be different then on cold days. Same thing applies for altitude. Once you reach the sweet spot, then just slowly go to the flare point and you should'nt have to run out any more landings.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zennie 0 #8 December 21, 2001 QuoteI've seen one of my friends do a one stage flare on a manta and go up about 15', then land hardYou sure he/she didn't let up on the toggles? It's really hard to discipline yourself to keep the toggles down when you're rising up like that -- but you have to do it. Even at 15' a canopy that size should set you down fairly soft if you keep the toggles buried."Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #9 December 21, 2001 Yeah he kept the toggles down, but he wasn't a small bloke either. I like my women like I like my coffee - hot and with a spoon in Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
SkymonkeyONE 3 #3 December 21, 2001 QuoteIf you flared most canopies with a one-stage flare...Well, not MOST canopies, but certainly most of the small ZP elipticals. A one-stage flare will work on most canopies, so long as you are doing a straight-in approach without any speed-producing turns. Todays more efficient airfoils will generally float across the ground faster and farther, thus the reason for the two-stage flare employed on those canopies. Phase one levels the canopy out and is used to scrub off speed. Phase two stops the canopy without having it climb back up into the air higher than you can step out of. ChuckMy webpage HERE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #4 December 21, 2001 I've seen one of my friends do a one stage flare on a manta and go up about 15', then land hard. I like my women like I like my coffee - hot and with a spoon in Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jfields 0 #5 December 21, 2001 When I went from huge student F-111s (@<1:1) to my Sabre at 1.1:1, boy was the flare different! I did 1-stage on the student gear and tried to do the same with my Sabre. I kept bouncing back upwards then falling like 5-15 feet to the ground. With PLFs, I was fine, but I somehow knew that this wasn't how it was supposed to work. Things finally "clicked" for me and I started doing more of a two-stage flare. The first part brakes most of my vertical descent. Then I gradually increase the flare as I bleed off speed. Even on my big (190) non-eliptical canopy, I'm starting to be able to skim across the ground a little bit before touching and landing. It works pretty well for me.I'm sure the canopy gurus and swoopers could give better explanations of exactly what is going on during a landing.JustinMy Homepage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rendezvous 0 #6 December 21, 2001 In a two stage flare about how much much toggle input should the first stage consume. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #7 December 21, 2001 t depends on the canopy,the end of the first stage should have swung you out and straight under the canopy. The second one just kills your forward speed.Think of it as being on a swing set, the entire time you are really about a foot or two pulled back, now on the first stage of the flare you want to move your body to straight down. When you hit the toggles it moves your body out under the canopy like a pendilum. Too little and the canopy is still diving as you surf, to much input and your body now swings up.This is done by feel. Don't lock your self into going to just a certian limit and nothing more or less. On warmer days this "Sweet Spot" will be different then on cold days. Same thing applies for altitude. Once you reach the sweet spot, then just slowly go to the flare point and you should'nt have to run out any more landings.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zennie 0 #8 December 21, 2001 QuoteI've seen one of my friends do a one stage flare on a manta and go up about 15', then land hardYou sure he/she didn't let up on the toggles? It's really hard to discipline yourself to keep the toggles down when you're rising up like that -- but you have to do it. Even at 15' a canopy that size should set you down fairly soft if you keep the toggles buried."Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkydiveMonkey 0 #9 December 21, 2001 Yeah he kept the toggles down, but he wasn't a small bloke either. I like my women like I like my coffee - hot and with a spoon in Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
jfields 0 #5 December 21, 2001 When I went from huge student F-111s (@<1:1) to my Sabre at 1.1:1, boy was the flare different! I did 1-stage on the student gear and tried to do the same with my Sabre. I kept bouncing back upwards then falling like 5-15 feet to the ground. With PLFs, I was fine, but I somehow knew that this wasn't how it was supposed to work. Things finally "clicked" for me and I started doing more of a two-stage flare. The first part brakes most of my vertical descent. Then I gradually increase the flare as I bleed off speed. Even on my big (190) non-eliptical canopy, I'm starting to be able to skim across the ground a little bit before touching and landing. It works pretty well for me.I'm sure the canopy gurus and swoopers could give better explanations of exactly what is going on during a landing.JustinMy Homepage Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rendezvous 0 #6 December 21, 2001 In a two stage flare about how much much toggle input should the first stage consume. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #7 December 21, 2001 t depends on the canopy,the end of the first stage should have swung you out and straight under the canopy. The second one just kills your forward speed.Think of it as being on a swing set, the entire time you are really about a foot or two pulled back, now on the first stage of the flare you want to move your body to straight down. When you hit the toggles it moves your body out under the canopy like a pendilum. Too little and the canopy is still diving as you surf, to much input and your body now swings up.This is done by feel. Don't lock your self into going to just a certian limit and nothing more or less. On warmer days this "Sweet Spot" will be different then on cold days. Same thing applies for altitude. Once you reach the sweet spot, then just slowly go to the flare point and you should'nt have to run out any more landings.I want to touch the sky, I want to fly so high ~ Sonique Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zennie 0 #8 December 21, 2001 QuoteI've seen one of my friends do a one stage flare on a manta and go up about 15', then land hardYou sure he/she didn't let up on the toggles? It's really hard to discipline yourself to keep the toggles down when you're rising up like that -- but you have to do it. Even at 15' a canopy that size should set you down fairly soft if you keep the toggles buried."Zero Tolerance: the politically correct term for zero thought, zero common sense." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkydiveMonkey 0 #9 December 21, 2001 Yeah he kept the toggles down, but he wasn't a small bloke either. I like my women like I like my coffee - hot and with a spoon in Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
