PalmettoTiger 1 #1 February 7, 2002 Someone mentioned non-velcro toggle keepers/brake line stows in another thread and I'm curious about them. What are the benefits and drawbacks? Where can I find pictures of them? (If it matters, right now I'm flying a PD 230 (F-111 square 9-cell) in a Vector II, DOM 11/93.)PTigerI'm stepping through the doorAnd I'm floating in a most peculiar way Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #2 February 7, 2002 Velcro toggles require replacing the Velcro when it gets worn to prevent the brakes from poping during opening. Its basically just velcro on the riser matted to the toggle.Velcroless - Lots of designs and they all seem to work fine. Basically they have a toggle hood at the top to stick the toggle into and some type of hood/pin holder at the bottom.Benifits to the non-velcro- does'nt wear on the lines like the velcro does. The velcros hooks dig into the steering lines and wear on them.Murphy's Laws of Love - If the person isn't taken, there's a reason for that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freefallin14 0 #3 February 7, 2002 I cannot see any drawback to velcroless toggles. They stay put, period. Velcro on the other hand will require replacement after time, but the worst thing is what it does to your lines. It will fuzz up control lines eventually. Would kinda ruin your day to have a control line break during your flare because of this.Bret Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TALONSKY 0 #4 February 7, 2002 The only draw back I have found is that they are a little harder to get your hand in the toggle. It is not a big deal but the material that the velcroless toggles are made of is floppier and less rigid than the velcro toggles. I have talked with 2 other people that went from velcro to velcroless and they all had the same comment. After 5 or 6 jumps you get adjusted like I said it is not a big deal but it is something that is different with them.Blue skiesKirk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #5 February 7, 2002 Something to watch for with the velcro-less:The top part of the toggle keeper should not be open! I forget who's design is like this - but look at relative workshop's or mirage systems' velcroless toggles - that's the way it should be done. Being open, there's a chance your slider could come down over the risers, and pop a toggle loose. Bad juju on a high-performace canopy. Maybe Sunpath's velcro-less system is open at the top? anyone?Never argue with stupid people.They just drag you down 2 their level & beat you with experience Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #6 February 7, 2002 Quote Maybe Sunpath's velcro-less system is open at the top? anyone?Javelin is open at the top, but also has a bottom keeper with a reverse kind of insertion thing. Never had a problem...yet. Is it hot in here, or am I crazy? - Charles Mansonflyhi Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wildblue 4 #7 February 7, 2002 QuoteJavelin is open at the top, but also has a bottom keeper with a reverse kind of insertion thing. Never had a problem...yet. Keep an eye on that elastic at the top, if it starts to get loose, replace it!Someone was talking about this very thing a month or two ago... I'll see if I can find the story again and post it.Never argue with stupid people.They just drag you down 2 their level & beat you with experience Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
weid14 0 #8 February 7, 2002 correction - Mirage's new design, the old design had a flaw which would allow the toggle to become unstowed on opening. The new design will prevent that from happening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kirils 1 #9 February 8, 2002 Years ago there were a number of us who used a rubber band to secure toggles. These were long bands tied on the riser. They would wrap around the toggle and you would lock it with a loop on the top of the toggle. Never a problem. I hate what velcro does to my lines... Skydiving is not a static excercise with discrete predictability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
