downsizing from a Spectre 150

[gus 1]

Hi all,
I have about 110 jumps, the last 60 or 70 of which have been on a Spectre 150. It's a great canopy and I really like it but I've been thinking about what I might get next.....
I weigh about 170 with gear, which means my Spectre is loaded at 1.1:1
I keep reading good things about the Safire, if I jumped a 129 it would be at 1.3:1
So I guess my question is: How much performance difference would I notice if I had a Safire 129? Any suggestions for other suitable canopies?
Blues,
Gus

[skybytch 259]

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I have about 110 jumps, the last 60 or 70 of which have been on a Spectre 150. It's a great canopy and I really like it but I've been thinking about what I might get next.....

All 60 or 70 of those landings have been stand ups? You can land it standing up in no wind, light wind, cross wind and downwind? You can land it accurately every time? You have worked with the front risers, know how to do braked turns, fly in brakes and have basically wrung every bit of performance possible out of that 150? If the answer to any of those questions is no, stick with what you have for another 100 jumps or so.

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I weigh about 170 with gear, which means my Spectre is loaded at 1.1:1 I keep reading good things about the Safire, if I jumped a 129 it would be at 1.3:1
So I guess my question is: How much performance difference would I notice if I had a Safire 129? Any suggestions for other suitable canopies?

Being the conservative type that I am, I'd recommend jumping a Safire 149 first. Do five or ten jumps on that, then if you're standing them all up and want more speed check out the 139. Same drill with that one. You may decide that a 129 would be too fast for you without ever jumping one, which will save you both money and possible injury. You can get demos from the manufacturer; usually costs $50 total (shipping both ways) and you'll get the canopy for a couple of weekends.
IMHO 70 jumps on a Spectre loaded at 1.1 is not enough experience to go to a Safire loaded at 1.3. The Spectre is one of the easiest canopies to land, at that wingloading you can biff the flare and still get a decent landing out of it. The Safire requires more skill and at a 1.3 wing loading it requires a LOT more attention to what you are doing.
Only you know if you can handle it, but I would not recommend that canopy at that wingloading for someone with 100 jumps. In fact I'd have a really hard time selling one to you! How long will it take you to get another 100 jumps in? I'll bet you'll be there by the time the summer is over; why not wait until then to buy a new canopy and spend this year getting really, really good at flying that Spectre?
Something else to think about... do you jump year round? Jumping 5 or more times every weekend? To safely fly a 1.3 wingloading you really should be staying extremely current. If you know there will be times when you have to go a month or more without jumping you might be better off not going that small, esp. at your experience level.
Again, I'm pretty conservative with gear recommendations mainly because I really hate seeing/hearing about people getting injured flying something that was really too much for them. I managed to screw my back up pretty bad flying a Safire loaded at 1.1... I may have 800 jumps but I don't stay super current and I'm not that good of a canopy pilot. A total of 9 months off work and a major back surgery later I've learned my lesson; my next rig will have a Spectre 170 loaded at about 1.0 when I have weights on, .9 without weights. I KNOW I can land that canopy standing up any place in all wind conditions and that is now the most important consideration for me...
pull and flare,
lisa
Edited by skybytch on 3/5/01 09:06 AM.

[Geoff 0]

My experience of switching from a Spectre to a Safire may be useful to you. At 300 something jumps, I switched from a Spectre 135 loaded at 1.4 to a Safire 129, hence just a tiny increase in wing loading.
It seemed a LOT quicker, lost a lot more height, and picked up a lot more speed in turns. It also seemed more difficult to land stand-up at first. I had to be really timid with it for the first 50 jumps or so.
I love the Safire now, but I would say that with your jump numbers, the significant increase in canopy performance, and the significant increase in wing loading, it's just too much of a gamble. You'd be significantly increasing your chances of injury or death.
Anyway, that's just MHO. I'm sure some would say that my transition was unnecessarily dangerous. It's all personal choice about risk and reward.
Stay safe,
Geoff

[gus 1]

Thanks for the advice guys.
I'll probably hold on to the Spectre for a while yet, it might not be as fun as it used to be but it's hardly boring and I'd much rather spend the £££s on jump tickets!
Blues,
Gus

[mattb 0]

Gus -
I learned on Safires loaded at 1.0:1 to 1.3:1 and this weekend demo'ed a rig that had a Spectre 190 in it loaded at 1.3:1. Safires are a lot of fun to fly and compared to many other canopies a pain to land. I don't think a Safire at 1.3:1 is that aggressive but I have a different perspective from some having jumped Safires from the beginning and having downsized relatively quickly. (average for my dropzone, faster than some other places)
I talked to Icarus canopies since they were at Skydive Chicago this weekend and learned a couple of things that may be of interest. Safires are measured differently than PD canopies.
1) A Safire 170 is smaller than a Spectre/Sabre 170. Icarus is changing this because PD has more market share and in the future the sizes will match up. Because of this you may want to jump a Safire 150 before a 130. (This isn't necessairly a "bad" on Icarus. PD gave a presentation and one of the topics was on how difficult it is to fairly/evenly measure canopy size.)
2) Icarus will be modifying the steering lines on the Safire to be more like the configuration on the Crossfire. Many people wrap the steering lines once around their hands because the "sweet spot" is at the very end of the flare.
Hope this helps. If you jump a Safire just remember to flare 100% - it's not as forgiving on landings as a Triathalon or Spectre.
Matt

[Freeflylizard 0]

My best advice would be to stick with your canopy for another 100 jumps or so. I have 99 jumps and I jump a Jonathan 150, but don't suppose that I'll be changing my canopy until around 250-300 jumps or even more depending on my currency.
Don't forget that (depressing fact though it is) the majority of fatalities in our sport are caused by people flying their canopies badly, and more often than not this is because they have downsized too soon, or got ahead of themselves in some other way such as hook-turning with only 150 jumps!
Do you feel that you've taken your canopy to its limit? No offence meant here, but I very much doubt it. If you talk to experienced canopy pilots with several thousand jumps, you'll be amazed at how long most of them held onto 'big' canopies before downsizing. This is for a reason!
I'm obviously not the one to be telling you what to do and what not to do, but if I were you I'd hold onto my Spectre 150 for at least another 100 jumps if not more. You may be surprised at the performance you can get out of it if you spend some time exploring its abilities!
Blue skies and stay safe!
Tom Arnold.

[maxf 0]

Hi, I have approximately 200 jumps. The past 50+ were made on Safire 129. I load it at approx 1.4. I personally love this canopy. Love the way it flies. Love the way it turns. Love the way it lands in windy days. And still can't land it on no-wind days. So far I had 2 really close calls under this canopy, and last weekend picked up a Spectre 135. Safire is definitely a more responsive and more fun of a canopy, but several hundred jumps are not really enough to be flying it and loading it this high.

[askir 0]

A 6000 jump novice once told me:
keep downsizing untill you break something, then you know the prior size was probably just right for you!

LIFE IS LIKE A CIGARETTE, YOU CAN SIT THERE AND WATCH IT BURN AWAY OR YOU CAN SMOKE THAT BITCH TO THE FILTER

[Albatross 0]

I go back to the wise quote from SkyBytch. No one ever died from a boring canopy. Jump something docile and easy to land in no winds, down wind, cross wind, up, down, in traffic. Then learn to make that baby sing. I can get some good speed and a decent swoop out of a spectre 170 loaded at 1.15:1. When you exausted all that. Then downsize. You may be boared while you figure out how to make the canopy preform but you will be safer in the long run.

Chris