Differences flying in tunnel vs. skydiving?

[mailin 0]

Quick question for those of you who are very experienced with both.

What have you found are the differences between tunnel flying and skydiving?

I've recently discovered a bad habit - falling out of formations. I found I was falling out of formations when I was obviously the lightest one in the group. This is due to my backsliding...alot, and keeping my arms in a mantis that was too close to my body (easiliy fixed).

Someone mentioned to me that this can be a problem of learning to fly in the tunnel - the lack of a rig and learning stability can cause back sliding on a regular skydive. Is this true?

I find as long as I don't backslide I'm really stable and am frequently a good reference point for folks just learning turns and stuff - a big plus to doing tunnel time.

This is an easy problem to fix now that I know about it, but it had me very frustrated for a long time.


Jen

Arianna Frances

[matthewcline 0]

Jen,

John Hoover from the Golden Knights recently wrote an article about the differences in skydiving magazine.

I too have found I fly a bit different from the tunnel to the actual skydive, and I too believ it is the rig that is the difference. So now many tunnels are offering "tunnel rigs" as a training aide.

The body position you discribe may actually be tilting you up to a much steeper body angle, almost like you may be inadvertantly booty flying.

In the mantis having your body symmetrical takes a little bit of focus in the biggining but becomes second nature with practice.

Try a coach and video it will help, and the next time you go to the tunnel try a tunnel rig and a coach who is talented in the aspect of the sport your focusing on for now.

But most of all have fun with all of it!

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Ron 7]

Not that big of a difference.

I have over 100 hours of tunnel, about 6 wearing a rig, and 3600 jumps.

The differences are very small and they go away if you wear a rig in the tunnel.

MOST people will not really notice the difference, other than weight.

A rig is weight that pushes your upper body down. So it is much easier to sit up in the tunnel.

A rig is weight located on the top of your back...So when moving there is a torquing motion on your roll axis on both the start and the stop.

The added weight also requires more input to start and stop the mass.

A rig will restrict your ability to bend and flex...I can do moves in the tunnel without a rig due to this (I could also do the same moves in freefall...But I would not live to tell about them).

As for back sliding....The tunnel will not let you backside more than a few feet before you meet up with a nice solid wall.

You are less likely to back slide in the tunnel since you have reference points all around you.

Also the weight of a rig in freefall will pitch your body *forward* due to the weight. So it is not likely to cause a backslide.

Joey and I were talking about this yesturday. Air is air. And you fly your body in the air. The air does not care if you are falling, or it is being pushed, or pulled, at you...(there are some differences such as turbulance, but again not enough to make a big deal).

The difference is the weight, the restriction of the rig, and your lack of visual clues all around you.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mailin 0]

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As for back sliding....The tunnel will not let you backside more than a few feet before you meet up with a nice solid wall.

I didn't have this problem in the tunnel - but in the air I'm under the impression (from other low timers, no video ) that I've been backsliding. I'll motion for them to come closer and they say they try, which is leading me to believe that this is something I've taught myself. This is something that will be addressed in my next camp later this year.

Guess it'll just take time and patience (which is lacking with me as of late )

Thanks for the input,


Jen


Jen

Arianna Frances

[diablopilot 2]

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So now many tunnels are offering "tunnel rigs" as a training aide.

How many?

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Ron 7]

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I didn't have this problem in the tunnel - but in the air I'm under the impression (from other low timers, no video ) that I've been backsliding. I'll motion for them to come closer and they say they try, which is leading me to believe that this is something I've taught myself. This is something that will be addressed in my next camp later this year.

Well when two lowtimers go jump its hard to say who did what. The lack of a good reference (In the tunnel you have walls and a floor all around you) makes it difficult to say who did what.

I would not put to much weight in the words of another lowtimer....If the person telling you was a coach, then maybe. But two relative lowtimers maybe not.

The fact you had awareness enough to "motion for them to come closer" makes me think you have enough awareness to stick out your legs and not slide all over.

Make a jump with a guy you know is good...That right there will let you know what the deal is.

Don't get frustrated and blame yourself so quick. It sounds like it could be the other person, not you.

The only way to find out is to jump with someone who you know knows what is going on.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[rehmwa 2]

Mailin - I had the same advice as Ron - you don't know if you are falling straight down until you go with someone who can. Another newbie isn't a good frame of reference.

The addition I do have: I've brought this up before, I know a few "UPSA Coaches" that I don't believe are able to fall straight down the tube. (that's not what Ron meant when he said get a 'coach') find a good skydiver, not just someone with a rating - one doesn't always equal the other even if it should.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[mailin 0]

Great advice guys! You're giving me a bit more confidence

I've got some coach dives to this coming weekend then.



Jen

Arianna Frances

[airdweller 0]

What have you found are the differences between tunnel flying and skydiving?

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I have found with skydiving, you get a true freedom of flight with one of the best views human eyes can ever experience. Truly a magical activity very few people will ever experience.

I have found with a tunnel, you get a safe amusement ride that offers a nice view of nothing. Merely a fun tool to help in one aspect of skydiving.

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[matthewcline 0]

I guess "offering" is not the right word, allowing is more like it and I have seen 2 Tunnels (along with Ft. Bragg for a tital of 3) use tunnels rigs.

Matt

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!

[Paige 0]

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I have found with a tunnel, you get a safe amusement ride that offers a nice view of nothing. Merely a fun tool to help in one aspect of skydiving.

The tunnel isn't trying to be like skydiving. Its a skydivers driving range or batting cage instead of the golf course or baseball stadium.

Tunnel Pink Mafia Delegate
www.TunnelPinkMafia.com

[VivaHeadDown 0]

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In Reply To
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I have found with a tunnel, you get a safe amusement ride that offers a nice view of nothing. Merely a fun tool to help in one aspect of skydiving.

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Yeah, the freefall portion. who goes indoors for a nice view? And tunnels are training facilities, not a ride.

Don't Confuse Me With My Own Words

[Avion 0]

I have found tunnel flying and skydiving to be a little different. Mostly, it's because of the 20+ pound difference between the two. Now, I wear 15-20 lbs on a belt when I belly fly in the tunnel that makes it really close.

Another difference is that I am having a little difficulty translating my tunnel skills into the sky, because all my reactions seem to be based on the visuals of the tunnel. When I'm in the sky, I get momentary brain locks (uh... What do I do now?), when confronted with situations that I know how to handle, 10' or so vertical distance, or even 15-20 horizontal distance, because I'm use to being only 4' or less away from another flyer. The lack of the walls as a visual reference seems to be the basis of the problem.

Solution: More practice

BTW On one of my recent tunnel trips, I jumped in without my bootie suit and weights to do some freeflying, and wobbled around quite a bit for a moment or two, till I got use to that again. That was a real surprise.

[CDRINF 1]

Everyone has missed the most obvious:

You can't die in a wind tunnel.

CDR

[rehmwa 2]

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You can't die in a wind tunnel.

Seems you'd have to really work at it anyway.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[airdweller 0]

I have found with a tunnel, you get a safe amusement ride that offers a nice view of nothing. Merely a fun tool to help in one aspect of skydiving.

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Yeah, the freefall portion. who goes indoors for a nice view? And tunnels are training facilities, not a ride.

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Yes tunnels are excellent training facilities for some skydivers, yet skydivers aren't the only one that use tunnels. Many non skydivers have gone into tunnels tend to view tunnels as an amusement ride.

P.S. There are many wonderful things to view indoors.

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"From the mightiest pharaoh to the lowliest peasant,
who doesn't enjoy a good sit?" C. Montgomery Burns

[rehmwa 2]

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Many non skydivers have gone into tunnels tend to view tunnels as an amusement ride.

Many non-skydivers only do one jump (AFF, Static line, Tandem) view our sport as an amusement ride. It's a good way to afford to keep the airplane up

I think of it as an amusing ride that I'm lucky to train in on the rare occasion.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Bowen 0]

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Everyone has missed the most obvious:

You can't die in a wind tunnel.

CDR

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sure you can. someone died in france not to long ago. most people really dont understand how dangerous it really is. death can and does happen but most serious injuries are broken bones and sometimes people break their necks. thats why instructor training is so important. they are the ones that run in front of the bus everyday and attempt to stop these thing from happening..

-Bowen

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Retired Tunnel Instructor, Sky/Tunnel Coach

Former dealer for 2k Composites, Skysystems, Alti-2, Wings

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

Everyone has missed the most obvious:

You can't die in a wind tunnel.

Wow. You're either being clueless or being sarcastic.

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You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[EvilLurker 2]

I'd say the biggest difference you'll see is if you have an "oversize" rig. I had a pretty big Talon container for my first gear, and it interfered a bit with my flying. That said, time in the tunnel really helped me with my freefall skills and what I learned there translated well into my skydiving progression. I did notice the bigger rig had caused me to "potatochip" a bit once I bought a custom (smaller) container. You'll learn how to cure that backsliding in the tunnel real quick, I'd say. I was doing the same thing at first. Good luck and have fun.