rhys 0 #1 March 4, 2007 Although Grumpy Tandem masters will probably not be looking here due to a lack of passion, I have a message for those that do get to read this. Please get another Job! There has been a lot of talk about the decline of our sport etc. It is the Grumpy bastards that are only jumping for the money and are not actually enjoying themselves that are the problem. When I was emptying rubbish bins and helping the packers and doing the menial jobs waiting for a slot, there were grumpy bastards that didn't even own a parachute that would only complain about having to go to 15000' and that it was too cold etc.... Well fuck off then! I want your Job and I will enjoy it so the customers can as well. Ex military personnel are the worst for this, I have noticed! There are always camera guys that want to do tandems, packers that want to do camera and plebs that want to start packing to pay for their jumps so they can get good enough to fly camera. AFF is another department! So please if you really are not enjoying yourself then get another job. I love my Job!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #2 March 4, 2007 Hear! Hear! I love my job and I bet everyone that jumps with me knows it! It was 6 degrees at altitude yesterday and while I'd rather it be warmer, I smiled and joked with all my tandems, loaned my beanie and neck warmers to the students, and only one complained about the cold. She would have complained about anything. Now, some of the other up jumpers .... steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #3 March 4, 2007 I always tell my students "I love this job!" as I hook them up and after the canopy opens.... and I ain't lyin'Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #4 March 4, 2007 Right there with you Steve! Although this weekend was spent prepin' to move into the newly purchased house. But Wednesday I will be back in the through Sunday! Matt P.S. Aren't you ex-military too? Like soon to be me.An Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #5 March 5, 2007 Quote P.S. Aren't you ex-military too? Like soon to be me. Yes, but so long ago. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peterpan 0 #6 March 5, 2007 Some people just do not know how how good we have it. Live the dream is what, I say fuck the restRegrets are just unfulfilled dreams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #7 March 5, 2007 I love being a tandem instructor, it is as close to being a porn star as I'll ever get. What other job would I get paid for doing something all day long that I would gladly pay to do? I don't care if the student is big, little, tall, heavy...although I will admit I prefer the little women....it's all good. I love the expression on their faces going from fear to wonder, the macho ones going from defiant to terror......how can you be grumpy about doing tandems? If I lose the passion and the enjoyment it is time to quit doing it. And I am former military as well.JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #8 March 5, 2007 I agree fully... I have seen some TIs (and this is at multiple DZs so I don't look at my profile and assume anything, actually my home DZ has made changes to make sure the following does not happen). Play their IPod all the way up on the plane and not talk to their student once - while their student was disassembling their goggles without knowing it because they were so nervous. Meet their student at the plane and not even introduce themselves but instead suggest they need to hurry up. Spiral their canopy down as fast as they can so they can get more slots in one day. I think students get sick when they are abused, not when they are taught how to fly and assist with the process. Slide in hard and not give an explanation or show concern for the student's condition. Not introduce the sport or show gear to people who are obviously curious. Not teach a single thing, thus making it a carnival ride. Complain on the way up about their work conditions or boss in front of a student who will remember it all because of their sense of awareness. Bitch about the weather (putting the bug in the student's ear that it is too cold to have fun). Leave in a hail storm, not try to shield the student's face but instead worry about their own "hiding behind the student" and have the student's face covered in welts, and not advocate the DZ give a free jump or anything. When the jump is over, or before the jump, not spend time with the customers, but instead sleep in a corner or hide from customers. Make poor weather decisions to earn the slot (hop-n-pop tandem because of clouds) because "the student won't know the difference." Dump their rig to packers without spending a second to untangle a mess, where AFF students are watching and are learning by example. Bitch about not being tipped in front of other customers. (Guys, someone is already spending a days pay for 20 minutes of your time, some people just can't spend more.) Pick their students based upon looks and sexual organs and treating the better looking (or smelling) customers better. I know I have one tandem instructor who is a roll model. He works so hard with his students to make sure they enjoy the experience and learn. He is always talking to them when he is on the ground. He explains everything. He jokes around (even if the jokes are recycled, they are new to the customer). I sometimes sit back and watch him do his "thing". Here is the thing - at a large DZ - most TIS get about the same money per jump as an AFFI. They have no prep time, no packing, and don't own or maintain the gear. They can do 12 jumps a day, where a busy AFFI can do maybe 6. (Using approximate numbers) AFFI: $30 per jump. 6 Jumps per day. LESS Gear Costs for using own gear $6 per jump (Assuming buying $5000 new, selling for $2500 used after 500 jumps, plus $1 per jump for reserve packs and maintenance) Packing Costs $6 per jump $108 per day = $13.50 per hour... TANDEM: $30 per jump * 12 jumps No gear or packing expenses Meet at the plane - no training time... $360 per day = $45 per hour.... The glass half full side - for $31.50 per hour more money over an AFFI, a TI should be the best employee at the DZ for customer retention and experience. The glass half empty side - no wonder why our front line workforce (can be) the burned out, grumpy, money seeking, tandem instructors. (And why do the full timers go TI over AFFI, it is the same reason why robbers rob banks - it is because that is where the money is.) Again, this is from a broad experience of visiting multiple DZs... I am proud my home DZ polices these issues as best as they can and has a great staff now. And, I love my job as a part time AFFI. If I ever get grumpy, please ask me to quit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NSEMN8R 0 #9 March 5, 2007 Why just pick on the TMs? I've seen plenty of grumpy, whiney, bitchy fuckers in just about every job at the dz. Packers complain because they're not jumping, vidiots complain because they have so much invested in gear and make less on a jump than the TMs, AFF guys bitch that they actually have to train their students so they make less jumps per day, DZOs are all living off beans and ramen noodles... Look what happens to even the nicest chicks when you put them in manifest for too long! In the end, I think we all love it or we wouldn't keep coming back every weekend. It's just a fact of life that some people aren't happy unless they're bitching. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #10 March 6, 2007 QuoteIt's just a fact of life that some people aren't happy unless they're bitching. So true! steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #11 March 6, 2007 Quote It's just a fact of life that some people aren't happy unless they're bitching. although that is very funny, I have to disagree. I was grumpy at a previous dropzone and I couldn't work out why for some time. I was doing 1000 work jumps a year, I was paid well and on time and was living in what I consider to be the most beautiful part of the world. What was getting me down? It was the pressures to jump when it was not appropriate, being told by the DZ owner that my ratings achieved in Australia were worthless an that I would never be a tandem Instructor there because of a landing incident I had 1500 jumps before, not being able to take time off to train at a dropzone where a days worth of sport jumping could actually be done! this was in fact a Tandem/Sausage factory. What did i do? I left and got a job elsewhere! Now I have traveled around the world (a little) and am more content doing less jumps but with more satisfaction. And luckily for me the same amount of pay with no tax and a lifestyle of a king! although 1000+ jumps a year sounds wonderful to most it does come with its disadvantages. I am happy to be doing a similar amount of sport jumps and work jumps now! Wendy Smith said something I will never forget; "you can do 1000 jumps and you can do 1000 jumps the same" Food for thought! Rhys"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #12 March 6, 2007 Hey, all of us bad days and bad situations. For some it was bump in the road, for others it is who they are. I'm glad you got over the bump and found your smile gain. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #13 March 6, 2007 Me too"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #14 March 6, 2007 At the dropzone that I used to work at, AFFI is a requirement of being a TI and all AFF works on a rotation, so that all TI's do both. Just thought I'd throw that in. Right or wrong or new thread? any thoughts? -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #15 March 6, 2007 QuoteAt the dropzone that I used to work at, AFFI is a requirement of being a TI and all AFF works on a rotation, so that all TI's do both. Just thought I'd throw that in. Right or wrong or new thread? any thoughts? two different birds in my opinion, but I'm only a TM, not an AFFI steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tdog 0 #16 March 7, 2007 QuoteAt the dropzone that I used to work at, AFFI is a requirement of being a TI and all AFF works on a rotation, so that all TI's do both. Just thought I'd throw that in. Right or wrong or new thread? any thoughts? So do the AFFIs have to be TIs too? I much rather TIs be trained sales people instead of AFFIs. My friend who makes $100K a year as a VP of a publicly traded company still has his phone calls recorded and graded by his superior for customer service recommendations. I said, "that is like spying." He said, "I have learned so much I am a better person to our customers because of it." Not to scare TIs into being good advocates of our sport, but a bit of training might be appropriate. Heck, I would support constructive feedback on me too when I am being an AFFI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #17 March 7, 2007 QuoteAt the dropzone that I used to work at, AFFI is a requirement of being a TI and all AFF works on a rotation, so that all TI's do both. Just thought I'd throw that in. Right or wrong or new thread? any thoughts? Nah, totally relevant! I was pressured to get my AFF rating before my tandem rating in Australia. this was weird to me because my roots fell deep within tandem factories and I went through the static line progression, I was totally familiar with tandems and totally un-familiar with AFF! AFF is so under rated and I felt I was not ready to get my AFF rating but there were others that were less ready already doing it, there were also pressures. So I am of mixed thoughts on this. In Australia and most of the rest of the world you only need 500 jumps to get a tandem rating. this is a little low but achiveable. but to think that people with less experience than this are taking AFF training is horrific! In new Zealand and south africa you need to have 1000 jumps to get a tandem rating so gaining an AFF rating before this would be understandable. But at the end of the day, If you have enough passion to do AFF as it is a Huge job and highly under paid and under appreciated! you have to love it to do it. So if the T/M's at you DZ have to be AFF I's then they will more than likely 'NOT' Be Grumpy tandem masters! Good Idea!"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #18 March 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo if the T/M's at you DZ have to be AFF I's then they will more than likely 'NOT' Be Grumpy tandem masters! Good Idea! No... they are grumpy AFFI's!! The opinion of the DZO is that tandems are highly complicated skydives and that in order to prove proficiency as a skydiver enough to be a TI, one must be able to take freefall students.. actually PFF here. The idea is that a freefall student is to know what they are getting into and that they are ultimately responsible for their own lives. If the shit hits the fan.. the instructor is ultimately responsible for saving their own lives first. With tandems being more complicated, resorting back to the ABC's of skydiving is not always an option for the instructor. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #19 March 8, 2007 We from my point of view is that tandems are far less complicated than AFF jumps. the customer feels 1000% more secure and although there are more possible malfunctions if you don't have the up to date gear, the jump is far more simple. The Human factor in AFF is huge and people react in some very strange ways when they are scared. No matter how hard a tandem student struggles they cannot get free. This is not the case in AFF and with my small taste of being an AFF jump master, I know first hand! Quite a Bizarre veiwpoint from that particular DZO."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Sebazz1 2 #20 March 8, 2007 It's cold The ride is too long I always get snotted on I'm a human amusement ride I might get puked on .... Just kidding, I love doing tandems! It's one of the two or three ways I can get that first jump feeling other than AFF or coaching. Skydiving saved my life many years ago and I want as many people to get their money's worth just as I did. I think some tandem masters get grumpy because their DZO's are tough or suck the fun out of it for them and there are other reasons too I am sure. But yup if you don't like it stop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #21 March 8, 2007 I felt much more secure for my first freefall jump than any of my 4 precursor tandems.. perhaps that's just me. And the DZO in question is referring to the more types of malfunctions (with someone strapped to your chest). I'm sure the freefall skills needed for AFF on every jump are much greater than tandems, but the cool head under a drogue/reserve tangle is something that doesn't come as naturally as freefall to most. I think this is his reasoning. He wants tandem instructors to be well rounded. That being said though, he HAS taken on TI's that had to work their way to doing freefall students, but it is a must. I'm not defending it, just putting it out there. Personally I want to do tandems, but not coaching or AFF. Not at all for monetary reasons. I want to do tandems exclusively to be with people on their first jump. Other instruction beyond that doesn't interest me. It won't happen at that dropzone, so I am looking for a new one. I'm still a ways away from a rating though.. I'd changed my mind about racing into them and I'd like to have about 1K jumps before getting into it. It'll be a while though since I decided I didn't want to pack anymore. Packing sucks.. more so for being treated like a worthless sack of crap than the work. Man I wish I had another local DZ! I skydive for fun, I don't need to take that S(*&t from anyone. I guess I need to change my name here. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #22 March 9, 2007 Quite a Bizarre veiwpoint from that particular DZO. Quote I like it! As a TM you 'might' be more aware of setting up further instruction, knowing what the AFF guys will need to work with as a 'base' of knowledge. 'Might' be a little more thorough with canopy control and explanations of body position etc. Sounds like a good way to 'spread the wealth' among the I's and encourage student retention. Good on your DZO there Packerboy! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #23 March 10, 2007 They all try to feel out who is interested in skydiving for more than just a carnival ride, but most instruction, except for a bit of canopy control for really inquisitive people is left out of the first tandem. I'm not saying it is wrong, but I have no interest whatsoever in coaching, packing (anymore) or doing freefall students.. so if I want to do tandems I would have to go to another DZ. Unfortunately there isn't one really local enough and without working in the sport I will only be able to afford to stay meagerly current. It may take a while to get to 1,000 or so jumps, so I'm hoping by then I still have some love enough of the sport to entertain the idea of travelling and camping every weekend somewhere to be able to do tandems. Right now I'm split between whether or not I want to even pay to have my reserve done or just sit out this year. Sad... and sorry, wrong thread. But anyway... Grumpy tandem instructors should be fired.. they are bad for repeat business and does the company they are working for no better than a shitty waiter does for his restaurant. Sure the customers will finish their meal, but you'll never see them ever again, and quite possibly never see their friends either. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites taffclarke 0 #24 April 3, 2007 I was grumpy at a previous dropzone and I couldn't work out why for some time. I was doing 1000 work jumps a year, I was paid well and on time and was living in what I consider to be the most beautiful part of the world. What was getting me down? It was the pressures to jump when it was not appropriate, being told by the DZ owner that my ratings achieved in Australia were worthless an that I would never be a tandem Instructor there because of a landing incident I had 1500 jumps before, not being able to take time off to train at a dropzone where a days worth of sport jumping could actually be done! this was in fact a Tandem/Sausage factory. What did i do? I left and got a job elsewhere! Rhys i read this twice and thought yep thats me so i have to agrea with you, when i meet a new student its not another piece of meat to me. i personaly am never happier than when i am in the air, its being on the ground and having to deal with the crap that gets me. now i'm married of course and yet i still love that feeling of SAFELY introducing people to the sport i love. i am more selective now and safety consiuse as well but that goes with getting old i guess. well said RHYS couldnt agree with you more blue skie'ssafety enjoyment learning, sel the sport. dont kill it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites teason 0 #25 April 16, 2007 Y'know, I really can't fake a smile like this!I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. 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rhys 0 #19 March 8, 2007 We from my point of view is that tandems are far less complicated than AFF jumps. the customer feels 1000% more secure and although there are more possible malfunctions if you don't have the up to date gear, the jump is far more simple. The Human factor in AFF is huge and people react in some very strange ways when they are scared. No matter how hard a tandem student struggles they cannot get free. This is not the case in AFF and with my small taste of being an AFF jump master, I know first hand! Quite a Bizarre veiwpoint from that particular DZO."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #20 March 8, 2007 It's cold The ride is too long I always get snotted on I'm a human amusement ride I might get puked on .... Just kidding, I love doing tandems! It's one of the two or three ways I can get that first jump feeling other than AFF or coaching. Skydiving saved my life many years ago and I want as many people to get their money's worth just as I did. I think some tandem masters get grumpy because their DZO's are tough or suck the fun out of it for them and there are other reasons too I am sure. But yup if you don't like it stop. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #21 March 8, 2007 I felt much more secure for my first freefall jump than any of my 4 precursor tandems.. perhaps that's just me. And the DZO in question is referring to the more types of malfunctions (with someone strapped to your chest). I'm sure the freefall skills needed for AFF on every jump are much greater than tandems, but the cool head under a drogue/reserve tangle is something that doesn't come as naturally as freefall to most. I think this is his reasoning. He wants tandem instructors to be well rounded. That being said though, he HAS taken on TI's that had to work their way to doing freefall students, but it is a must. I'm not defending it, just putting it out there. Personally I want to do tandems, but not coaching or AFF. Not at all for monetary reasons. I want to do tandems exclusively to be with people on their first jump. Other instruction beyond that doesn't interest me. It won't happen at that dropzone, so I am looking for a new one. I'm still a ways away from a rating though.. I'd changed my mind about racing into them and I'd like to have about 1K jumps before getting into it. It'll be a while though since I decided I didn't want to pack anymore. Packing sucks.. more so for being treated like a worthless sack of crap than the work. Man I wish I had another local DZ! I skydive for fun, I don't need to take that S(*&t from anyone. I guess I need to change my name here. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #22 March 9, 2007 Quite a Bizarre veiwpoint from that particular DZO. Quote I like it! As a TM you 'might' be more aware of setting up further instruction, knowing what the AFF guys will need to work with as a 'base' of knowledge. 'Might' be a little more thorough with canopy control and explanations of body position etc. Sounds like a good way to 'spread the wealth' among the I's and encourage student retention. Good on your DZO there Packerboy! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packerboy 3 #23 March 10, 2007 They all try to feel out who is interested in skydiving for more than just a carnival ride, but most instruction, except for a bit of canopy control for really inquisitive people is left out of the first tandem. I'm not saying it is wrong, but I have no interest whatsoever in coaching, packing (anymore) or doing freefall students.. so if I want to do tandems I would have to go to another DZ. Unfortunately there isn't one really local enough and without working in the sport I will only be able to afford to stay meagerly current. It may take a while to get to 1,000 or so jumps, so I'm hoping by then I still have some love enough of the sport to entertain the idea of travelling and camping every weekend somewhere to be able to do tandems. Right now I'm split between whether or not I want to even pay to have my reserve done or just sit out this year. Sad... and sorry, wrong thread. But anyway... Grumpy tandem instructors should be fired.. they are bad for repeat business and does the company they are working for no better than a shitty waiter does for his restaurant. Sure the customers will finish their meal, but you'll never see them ever again, and quite possibly never see their friends either. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites taffclarke 0 #24 April 3, 2007 I was grumpy at a previous dropzone and I couldn't work out why for some time. I was doing 1000 work jumps a year, I was paid well and on time and was living in what I consider to be the most beautiful part of the world. What was getting me down? It was the pressures to jump when it was not appropriate, being told by the DZ owner that my ratings achieved in Australia were worthless an that I would never be a tandem Instructor there because of a landing incident I had 1500 jumps before, not being able to take time off to train at a dropzone where a days worth of sport jumping could actually be done! this was in fact a Tandem/Sausage factory. What did i do? I left and got a job elsewhere! Rhys i read this twice and thought yep thats me so i have to agrea with you, when i meet a new student its not another piece of meat to me. i personaly am never happier than when i am in the air, its being on the ground and having to deal with the crap that gets me. now i'm married of course and yet i still love that feeling of SAFELY introducing people to the sport i love. i am more selective now and safety consiuse as well but that goes with getting old i guess. well said RHYS couldnt agree with you more blue skie'ssafety enjoyment learning, sel the sport. dont kill it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packerboy 3 #23 March 10, 2007 They all try to feel out who is interested in skydiving for more than just a carnival ride, but most instruction, except for a bit of canopy control for really inquisitive people is left out of the first tandem. I'm not saying it is wrong, but I have no interest whatsoever in coaching, packing (anymore) or doing freefall students.. so if I want to do tandems I would have to go to another DZ. Unfortunately there isn't one really local enough and without working in the sport I will only be able to afford to stay meagerly current. It may take a while to get to 1,000 or so jumps, so I'm hoping by then I still have some love enough of the sport to entertain the idea of travelling and camping every weekend somewhere to be able to do tandems. Right now I'm split between whether or not I want to even pay to have my reserve done or just sit out this year. Sad... and sorry, wrong thread. But anyway... Grumpy tandem instructors should be fired.. they are bad for repeat business and does the company they are working for no better than a shitty waiter does for his restaurant. Sure the customers will finish their meal, but you'll never see them ever again, and quite possibly never see their friends either. -------------------------------------------------- In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock. ~ Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
taffclarke 0 #24 April 3, 2007 I was grumpy at a previous dropzone and I couldn't work out why for some time. I was doing 1000 work jumps a year, I was paid well and on time and was living in what I consider to be the most beautiful part of the world. What was getting me down? It was the pressures to jump when it was not appropriate, being told by the DZ owner that my ratings achieved in Australia were worthless an that I would never be a tandem Instructor there because of a landing incident I had 1500 jumps before, not being able to take time off to train at a dropzone where a days worth of sport jumping could actually be done! this was in fact a Tandem/Sausage factory. What did i do? I left and got a job elsewhere! Rhys i read this twice and thought yep thats me so i have to agrea with you, when i meet a new student its not another piece of meat to me. i personaly am never happier than when i am in the air, its being on the ground and having to deal with the crap that gets me. now i'm married of course and yet i still love that feeling of SAFELY introducing people to the sport i love. i am more selective now and safety consiuse as well but that goes with getting old i guess. well said RHYS couldnt agree with you more blue skie'ssafety enjoyment learning, sel the sport. dont kill it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teason 0 #25 April 16, 2007 Y'know, I really can't fake a smile like this!I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
