Ever feel like you're wasting your time with a student?

[riddler 0]

I did some coach jumps with a student (15 jumps) this weekend. She's a nice girl and college student. It didn't bother me that she had trouble spotting - everyone has to practice a few times before they get it. It didn't bother me that she went unstable on her hop-n-pop - she kept cool and arched and pulled eventually. It didn't even bother me that she got lost, didn't follow my canopy, and landed off in a cow pasture - some people get excited and forget to think about where they're landing. All of these problems are solved with time and experience.

What bothered me is that I asked her what she really likes about jumping, and she said she didn't know. She said she jumps because her boyfriend does, but most of the time skydiving is a "hassle". I asked her if her boyfriend stopped jumping, would she? She said "probably".

Now, in my worthless opinion, this student isn't going to be in the sport very long. She's either going to A) Break up with her boyfriend and stop jumping B) Decide that she can't afford it anymore and stop jumping C) Get tired of the hassle and stop jumping, or any number of other reasons. I guess a lot of people quit the sport eventually, but what if they're not even excited about it to begin with?

I know some people believe it's just a business and you get paid for what you do. But really, for me it's so much more than that. I really like when students are excited about jumping - their enthusiasm makes me excited about it as well. I like jumping as both a student and teacher, and learning and teaching. I like the friends I make in the sport, and I hope that they are people that I can have friendships with, even outside of the DZ. How do I feel when a student doesn't really like jumping? Frankly, I feel like I'm wasting my time.

How would you feel?

Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD

[bmcd308 0]

>>or any number of other reasons<<

Unfortunately, some of these are life altering. I do not like to see people whose head is not in the game playing along to pass the time.

I share your frustration with investing time in students that are not going to stick around, though.

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[EricTheRed 0]

I spend much of my life (it’s my day job) trying to teach people things that I know they will never really apply. When working with students that I know won’t stick with it, I just treat it as an opportunity to practice my performance. That way I might be a little bit better for the next person that’s really serious.

Don’t let it get you down. Just enjoy the jump!

illegible usually

[tombuch 0]

Sure, there are students like that, and sometimes they are a hassle. Sometimes they are begging for your help and they don't even know it.

Obviously you really like skydiving. Express that enthusiasm to your troubled student. Help her find whatever it is that you consider so enjoyable. Sometimes a student is so overwhelmed that they can't see the upside of our amazing sport. I can't promise that it will make a difference in her jumping career, but it gives you a reason to keep working with her, and a real opportunity to change her life.

Share your stoke.
.

Tom Buchanan
Instructor Emeritus
Comm Pilot MSEL,G
Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy

[livendive 8]

The vast majority of jumpers quit jumping at some point, some before getting an A-license, some after making a few dozen to a couple hundred jumps, some after making a couple thousand. For the rest of their lives, skydiving will be something they look back on, not forward to. How we instruct and treat them while they're jumping will play a large part in what kind of memories stick with them. I hope most of my prior students who've since quit look back on their skydiving days favorably.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[peregrinerose 0]

Be patient with the student, I was her 100 jumps ago. I jumped because my husband did and I didn't like the days he looked more longingly at the sky than me (now he looks at me longingly while in the sky!). I didn't enjoy the first 10-15+ jumps. It was work, I spent all my attention focused on what I was doing so I'd pass to the next level of AFF or accomplish the coach jump goals for my A card. Since my attention was 100% on skills, it was not on enjoyment.

Having fun didn't come until much later. But now, there's no way to keep me out of the sky.

Jen

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[Hooknswoop 19]

D) She is going to get hurt and quit, unhappy with anything skydiving.

You have to apply yourself in skydiving or you will get hurt. That takes motivation and determination, both of which she does not have. Do her a favor and keep her on the ground. She will probably thank you because then she won't have to do something she doesn't want to do anymore.

I had a student that was having all sorts of problems. I was working my tail off trying to train them. I asked them in passing, "Why do you skydive?" They got a strange look on their face, said, "I don't know.", took off the rig and left, never to return. They realized they didn't really want to jump.

Derek

[bmcd308 0]

Well friggin' said.

----------------------------------
www.jumpelvis.com

[livendive 8]

Quote

D) She is going to get hurt and quit, unhappy with anything skydiving.

You have to apply yourself in skydiving or you will get hurt. That takes motivation and determination, both of which she does not have. Do her a favor and keep her on the ground. She will probably thank you because then she won't have to do something she doesn't want to do anymore.

I agree that people shouldn't skydive for the wrong reasons, but their reasons are their's, not mine. While I will tell someone I disagree with skydiving to impress someone else (e.g.), I wouldn't ground them because I don't like their reason unless their reason was a death wish.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I wouldn't ground them because I don't like their reason unless their reason was a death wish.

I agree and wouldn't ground them because of why they skydive, but if they are going to get hurt because they are jumping for the wrong reasons, then I would ground them. That is part of being an Instructor, protect your students, even, if necessary, from themselves.

Derek

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

I agree and wouldn't ground them because of why they skydive, but if they are going to get hurt because they are jumping for the wrong reasons, then I would ground them. That is part of being an Instructor, protect your students, even, if necessary, from themselves.

Well said.

Phil, if the student isn't showing interest in what is going on, or putting in the effort, don't work with her anymore. You are a sensitive instructor, I know you. If something happens to her, and it's just a matter of time, you will feel it was your responsibility to keep her safe. You have done every thing you can possibly do; now it's up to her to take responsibility and show that she really wants to learn.

I'll never understand why some girls skydive because their b/f does it

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[skypuppy 1]

Good answer.

If you gave her the best you had, you're never wasting your time....

If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead.
Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

[Rettrae 0]

Some people do get into this for the wrong reasons. (to impress others is the main wrong reason!!!) I am about to finish my level 7 and start my solo jumps and for the longest time, I would tell myself "just one more jump and I quit" I did this all the way until my AFF 5, where I actually had fun and remained stable, landed well,ect. As for the people who want to impress others with the fact that they skydive, but dont want to do the work involved in being safe and good, do a tandem, get your t-shirt and buy a round of beers for everyone.

[Nightingale 0]

Quote

***
I'll never understand why some girls skydive because their b/f does it

I'm obviously not an instructor, but maybe I can answer this:

Because it's something you can do together.
Because you won't have much time together otherwise.
Because they want to share something they love with you.
Because you'll feel like a wuss if you quit because there's someone else who'll know of your wussage (whether or not they think you're a wuss is irrelevant if you feel like you wussed and someone else knows it).

I enjoyed my tandem and level 1. On level 2, I got really freaked. On level 3, I met someone who made me want to keep jumping. If it weren't for meeting him, I might've quit. I was getting really discouraged with my landing difficulties, but I kept trying because I had someone else there who really cared whether or not I did well. I was scared to death on the plane and had a terrible time fighting the door monster, but I did it. Once I got to level 6,7, and 8, things really came together for me in the sky; I didn't hesitate at all on level 8, and I had perfect landings on level 6 and 8. The thing is, if it hadn't been for that one person who helped me get through levels 2-5, I don't think I'd have made it to 6. He's still a great friend, and, now that I think about it, I should probably call him and say "thanks."

Being a student is hard. Some of the jumps can be really tedious, because since you're thinking so hard about everything you have to do, you forget that it's supposed to be fun. For jumps 2-5, I was jumping because someone else wanted to see me jump. On jump 6, I started jumping for myself again, because that jump reminded me why I'd started in the first place.

Everyone's got different motivations to jump. Some jump because they love it. Some jump because someone close to them loves it. Some jump because they want to conquer a fear of heights. Some jump because they want to prove something to somebody. Some jump because they have something to prove to themselves. They're all valid reasons. Sometimes it's not the motivation that's important. What's important is whether that motivation affects the safety of their skydiving.

[peregrinerose 0]

Quote

I'll never understand why some girls skydive because their b/f does it

To add to Nightingale's post...

Because we love our bf and have much in common.. they like jumping so we might too.

We are jealous of all the attention the sky gets.

We go to the DZ with the bf and notice DAMN, there are some fine looking men around, not a bad place to be.

We know that the bf loves us more than jumping, so jumps very little to have time with us. We care about him enough to want him to not make this sacrifice.

We make a few jumps due to the reasons above, and end up figuring out that this whole thing is freaking fun!

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[AFFI 0]

Quote

Quote

***
I'll never understand why some girls skydive because their b/f does it

I'm obviously not an instructor, but maybe I can answer this:

Because it's something you can do together.
Because you won't have much time together otherwise.
Because they want to share something they love with you.
Because you'll feel like a wuss if you quit because there's someone else who'll know of your wussage (whether or not they think you're a wuss is irrelevant if you feel like you wussed and someone else knows it).

I enjoyed my tandem and level 1. On level 2, I got really freaked. On level 3, I met someone who made me want to keep jumping. If it weren't for meeting him, I might've quit. I was getting really discouraged with my landing difficulties, but I kept trying because I had someone else there who really cared whether or not I did well. I was scared to death on the plane and had a terrible time fighting the door monster, but I did it. Once I got to level 6,7, and 8, things really came together for me in the sky; I didn't hesitate at all on level 8, and I had perfect landings on level 6 and 8. The thing is, if it hadn't been for that one person who helped me get through levels 2-5, I don't think I'd have made it to 6. He's still a great friend, and, now that I think about it, I should probably call him and say "thanks."

Being a student is hard. Some of the jumps can be really tedious, because since you're thinking so hard about everything you have to do, you forget that it's supposed to be fun. For jumps 2-5, I was jumping because someone else wanted to see me jump. On jump 6, I started jumping for myself again, because that jump reminded me why I'd started in the first place.

Everyone's got different motivations to jump. Some jump because they love it. Some jump because someone close to them loves it. Some jump because they want to conquer a fear of heights. Some jump because they want to prove something to somebody. Some jump because they have something to prove to themselves. They're all valid reasons. Sometimes it's not the motivation that's important. What's important is whether that motivation affects the safety of their skydiving.

First off, to Nightingale, I would like to compliment you on a very well written and eloquently stated post that really enlightened me. Well done.

I am not going to say anything specific about my beliefs or let on what a chauvinistic sexist bigot I can be because I do not want to start a riot, so I will simply state that I sure am glad that men and women are different. It makes evenings with my wife much more interesting.
But as far as skydiving is concerned, what instructors keep an eye out for are certain red flags that may indicate safety hazards for students, so you are totally correct with your closing statement. One in particular is the motivation for skydiving. Sometimes the motivation to do so is misdirected and may cause a student to not concentrate on certain aspects of the sport (such as EP’s). I have worked with a couple of students for instance who was just not taking things seriously, with an apathetic attitude and when delving into their mind, inquiring as to what their motivation was to skydive it was solely for the purpose to make someone else happy, to better make a connection and that deep down inside they really did not have any need or desire to skydive. So there was no need for them to… Anytime I see someone trying to convince someone else (who really doesn’t want to) to skydive, I have on multiple occasions thrown caution to the wind (privately) to individuals. I am not saying this is a “good” or “bad” thing; in fact I have done it myself in the past. For many of us when we discover skydiving it is like the best thing since sliced bread and we just want to share our most awesome discovery with others. Jumping out of an airplane is a serious commitment and one must prepare thoroughly to best ensure their chance of survival. This does not mean that everyone that is not sure they want to jump must be turned away - I will work with a student who’s motivation is less than “for self” as long as they are taking the training seriously, understand the risks involved as well as the need for through preparation and I am convinced that they will prepare themselves as well as needed in order to ensure survival. Some fade away and some now have hundreds of jumps but I believe the dividing line for an instructor is to recognize when someone is posing a safety hazard to themselves of others.

Once again Nightingale, thank you for your post, it was really beautiful. I cannot wait to see my wife so I can hug her and tell her how much I love her.

Make it a great day everyone.

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[AFFI 0]

Quote

I should probably call him and say "thanks."

It is really nice when a former student does that; he would probably really appreciate it...

[Nightingale 0]

Quote

First off, to Nightingale, I would like to compliment you on a very well written and eloquently stated post that really enlightened me. Well done.

Thanks.

[flyangel2 2]

Quote

Everyone's got different motivations to jump. Some jump because they love it. Some jump because someone close to them loves it. Some jump because they want to conquer a fear of heights. Some jump because they want to prove something to somebody. Some jump because they have something to prove to themselves. They're all valid reasons. Sometimes it's not the motivation that's important. What's important is whether that motivation affects the safety of their skydiving.

Kris, what I have highlighted is the important part of skydiving. The motivation has to keep the student safe.

Maybe what I should have said in my post is "I don't understand when girls jump that really have no desire to be there or no self motivation and they are there just because of their boyfriend."

Those females or any person that takes up skydiving without self motivation are an accident waiting to happen.

I hope I've cleared up my thoughts on the subject to you and peregrinerose.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[dperrotta 0]

Im feeling your pain. Personally I have suggested to sucha student that they look deep inside and ask themselves why and if they really want to continue. Im less concerned about their possible lack of sticking with it than I am recognizing the pure safety issues faced with someone who's "head is not in this game." Bowling is my general recommendation.
Dennis