Cat A and B Tandems - Judging Studen Body Position

[mfrese 0]

I'd like to get feedback from instructors (and students!) who have done or are currently doing Cat A and Cat B tandem jumps. (Skymonkey2 in particular...you left before we started working on this stuff, chump!)

My question: without video, how do you determine your student's body position? I have done a few of these jumps now, and the one thing I consistently have difficulty with is determining the amount of arch and legs out awareness these students are displaying. I can get a general idea from feeling where their legs are at with mine, but without a good visual reference, I'm really not sure whether they are in a good body position, or if I'm helping them maintain a good body position.

My concern here is that I'm going to eventually be sending some of these people on to Cat C jumps where the jumpmasters are going to be expecting a student who has a good arch, positive legs, and heading control, when I'm not entirely sure that's what they're getting. Any suggestions?

Also, what rigs are you using for these jumps? I did one with a Vector II the other day, and the student has a VERY hard pull with the old Velcro handle. I've made every effort to stick to using the Sigma for these, since the bungee secondary seems much easier for them to pull (and they don't have to worry about dropping the damn drogue release!). Again, any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Mike

Doctor I ain't gonna die,
Just write me an alibi! ---- Lemmy/Slash

[dreamsville 0]

A buddy of mine, Luther, at Skydive San Diego said he was using a wrist-cam for a while, although I'm not sure how much body position you could successfully capture with that, given that it is attached to one of your own control surfaces.
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I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

[AggieDave 6]

We use Sigmas. Occasionally the student will have a hardish pull, but you can feel them pull, so a nudge with the handle on the other side gives the leverage to get the pin out. Since they were pulling, that's the point. Since they don't know what to do incase of a hardpull/no pull, then they did it right and did the right thing (pulling the handle).

As for body position. You can generally tell if the student is arched or not, or has their knees down just by how the tandem is flying and what it feels like. Looking at them helps, since its easy to see. Arms are obvious, arch and body is obvious by sight as well. If the legs are up on their ass our out where their supposed to be is harder to judge. So we have "leg awareness drills" which is basically forward movement drills. We use that while teaching the transition course to teach what kind of air pressure they should feel on their legs during freefall on AFF.

So I guess the short answer is, no video, just about all of their body is easy to see and easy to feel. The legs out or in thing is taught around and has worked very very well with our students transitioning to AFF. Infact the program has absolutely blown my mind, the level of student going into AFF, finishing AFF in less jumps, doing better on the coached jumps and being better skydivers. It all starts with the first couple of jumps and how they learn the foundation of their skydiving.



EDIT: Forgot to state. I have a bit over 400 tandem skydives. About 150 of those are working tandems, Cat A or Cat B.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

If you are not cranking down on the side straps too much the student will have more freedom of motion and you will better feel what they are doing under you (instead of simply being squashed to you). Also, I don't have any problems looking down and around them to see if they are dropping their knees, etc. At pull time, I keep an eye out on the alti and when they reach their hand back to pull, I go ahead and put my left hand on my other drogue release right after making sure their right hand is in the correct place. Great thing about working tandems is that you can holler at them and manipulate their arms very from the back. Remember, on CAT A it's perfectly acceptable to "help" them pull. By that, I mean it's ok (read your A-card kids) to help them get their hand right on the drogue release and get it pulled.

Chuck

[gavmaniac 0]

Hey Mike,

Mmmm, must admit that I've never done a CAT A or B jump on Sygma or Vector (most of my tandems) but have done them on Strong, where, owing to the mid-container drogue attachment, the headup attitude seemed to make it pretty easy to see the student's body position & toe-taps. As far as pulling goes, putting your hand around the housing behind the handle also seems to help ascertaining where exactly the student is groping around for the handle &, if you're out of time, allows a quick pull by yourself (obviously keeping the other hand well clear of the student for alternative use should he/she grab your main pulling hand in a vice-grip). Also, discussing student pulling difficulties with the DZO/S&TA may lead to moving the handle position for an easier pull. My African cent's worth...

Gav.

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

A buddy of mine, Luther, at Skydive San Diego said he was using a wrist-cam for a while, although I'm not sure how much body position you could successfully capture with that, given that it is attached to one of your own control surfaces.
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It is easy to see student's leg positions using a hand-mounted camera.
Once you have the drogue out, patted all your handles, etc., ... just pan your camera hand down the left side of their body.

[FreeflyGoat 0]

I've been able to look back to the side under my arm and see at least one of the students legs. Gave a few legs out signals last weekend :-)

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