riggerrob 558 #1 April 17, 2011 Which was invented first, Bill Buchman's Eagle or Bill Booth's Wonderhog? Which was the first mid-seventies "modern" (e.g. through-loops holding the reserve container closed) piggyback container? Let's ignore Pioneer's 1960s vintage piggybacks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #2 April 17, 2011 QuoteWhich was the first mid-seventies "modern" (e.g. through-loops holding the reserve container closed) piggyback container? Para-Innovators was using a through loop in the early 70’s on the Piglet 2 system. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #3 April 18, 2011 Roger Ramjet's the one to ask. From his post on where are they now? What about you, you've been around long enough that I may have met you. I was the rigger at Z-Hills in 1973-early 74 before going to work for Bill Booth. Worked for him about a year building the first 100+ Wonderhogs, then went with Bill Buchman to IL for the summer to build his rigs. Returned and continued to jump at Z-Hills, Deland, and the Sod Farm (off 301 in Tampa).If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #4 April 18, 2011 QuoteRoger Ramjet's the one to ask. From his post on where are they now? What about you, you've been around long enough that I may have met you. I was the rigger at Z-Hills in 1973-early 74 before going to work for Bill Booth. Worked for him about a year building the first 100+ Wonderhogs, then went with Bill Buchman to IL for the summer to build his rigs. Returned and continued to jump at Z-Hills, Deland, and the Sod Farm (off 301 in Tampa). While I worked for both "Bills," I have no idea who's rig was in service first. I never saw an Eagle rig before going to work for Buchmann, but his operation started in Ill while I lived and worked in Fla. I expect they both started pretty close to the same time, but have no way to know for sure. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mbranch202 1 #5 April 18, 2011 I owned one wonderhog and two Buchman Eagles. The wonderhog was first by a least a year...Mike Branch NSCSA #7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #6 April 22, 2011 I had a Buchman Eagle made mid-1975 and Wonderhog serial number 1218 made in April 1977. Loved them both! jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #7 April 25, 2011 QuoteI owned one wonderhog and two Buchman Eagles. The wonderhog was first by a least a year... Hi Mike, not sure why when you bought your rigs would dictate when either started making their rigs. When I left Booth to work for Buchmann and moved up to Aurora for the summer, there were a ton of Eagle rigs being jumped at Hinkley already, so he had been making rigs for a while before I got there. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mbranch202 1 #8 April 26, 2011 I remember having one of the first wonderhog. Had the plastic ripcord that would break if it got nicked. I think before the 3 rings were out. I remember buchman trying the wrap which was on both eagles that I owned. I never had to try them out. So anyway, I'm not 100% sure which was first... Just going by my history..Mike Branch NSCSA #7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Niki1 1 #9 April 26, 2011 QuoteI remember having one of the first wonderhog. Had the plastic ripcord that would break if it got nicked. I think before the 3 rings were out. I remember buchman trying the wrap which was on both eagles that I owned. I never had to try them out. So anyway, I'm not 100% sure which was first... Just going by my history.. In the spring of '74, Gary, Jaybo, Bob Favreau, and Brent McClarty brought Mr. Douglas to DeLand and strarted working on it to be a jump plane. Bill Booth brought a rig he had built. It was a back rig with a wrap-around pilot chute released by a "plastic coated" ripcord. It was thin. With that and a poptop a jumper would be thinner (front-to-back) that with a Security piggy back. A few weeks later Bill showed up with a piggyback version. I think it had the thru loop comming from the reserve pack tray. That idea, of the pin flaps being pulled toward the pack tray, was the begining of the end of the rigs that resembled a refridgerator. As far as Buchman's rig, Mike Ladd had the first one I saw. A nice piece of equipment but I don't remember if it was that year or the year after. Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other.Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #10 April 27, 2011 QuoteQuoteI remember having one of the first wonderhog. Had the plastic ripcord that would break if it got nicked. I think before the 3 rings were out. I remember buchman trying the wrap which was on both eagles that I owned. I never had to try them out. So anyway, I'm not 100% sure which was first... Just going by my history.. In the spring of '74, Gary, Jaybo, Bob Favreau, and Brent McClarty brought Mr. Douglas to DeLand and strarted working on it to be a jump plane. Bill Booth brought a rig he had built. It was a back rig with a wrap-around pilot chute released by a "plastic coated" ripcord. It was thin. With that and a poptop a jumper would be thinner (front-to-back) that with a Security piggy back. A few weeks later Bill showed up with a piggyback version. I think it had the thru loop comming from the reserve pack tray. That idea, of the pin flaps being pulled toward the pack tray, was the begining of the end of the rigs that resembled a refridgerator. As far as Buchman's rig, Mike Ladd had the first one I saw. A nice piece of equipment but I don't remember if it was that year or the year after. Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other. I was there the weekend Bill showed up with the piggyback version. He said he was looking for someone to build them for him and I moved to Miami the next weekend. The rest is history as they say... ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aeroflyer 0 #11 May 1, 2011 What exactly is a thru-loop? Is this the same as the regular pin setup? Is it the same as a thru-loop i've heard of for base containers? QuoteQuoteI remember having one of the first wonderhog. Had the plastic ripcord that would break if it got nicked. I think before the 3 rings were out. I remember buchman trying the wrap which was on both eagles that I owned. I never had to try them out. So anyway, I'm not 100% sure which was first... Just going by my history.. In the spring of '74, Gary, Jaybo, Bob Favreau, and Brent McClarty brought Mr. Douglas to DeLand and strarted working on it to be a jump plane. Bill Booth brought a rig he had built. It was a back rig with a wrap-around pilot chute released by a "plastic coated" ripcord. It was thin. With that and a poptop a jumper would be thinner (front-to-back) that with a Security piggy back. A few weeks later Bill showed up with a piggyback version. I think it had the thru loop comming from the reserve pack tray. That idea, of the pin flaps being pulled toward the pack tray, was the begining of the end of the rigs that resembled a refridgerator. As far as Buchman's rig, Mike Ladd had the first one I saw. A nice piece of equipment but I don't remember if it was that year or the year after. Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #12 May 2, 2011 QuoteWhat exactly is a thru-loop? Is this the same as the regular pin setup? Is it the same as a thru-loop i've heard of for base containers? QuoteQuoteI remember having one of the first wonderhog. Had the plastic ripcord that would break if it got nicked. I think before the 3 rings were out. I remember buchman trying the wrap which was on both eagles that I owned. I never had to try them out. So anyway, I'm not 100% sure which was first... Just going by my history.. In the spring of '74, Gary, Jaybo, Bob Favreau, and Brent McClarty brought Mr. Douglas to DeLand and strarted working on it to be a jump plane. Bill Booth brought a rig he had built. It was a back rig with a wrap-around pilot chute released by a "plastic coated" ripcord. It was thin. With that and a poptop a jumper would be thinner (front-to-back) that with a Security piggy back. A few weeks later Bill showed up with a piggyback version. I think it had the thru loop comming from the reserve pack tray. That idea, of the pin flaps being pulled toward the pack tray, was the begining of the end of the rigs that resembled a refridgerator. As far as Buchman's rig, Mike Ladd had the first one I saw. A nice piece of equipment but I don't remember if it was that year or the year after. Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other. The "through loop" used on both the Wonderhog and the Eagle rigs was simply that the loops holding the 2-pin reserve containers closed were one continuous piece run through the bottom of the container in such a way that even if just one of the two pins cleared, the loop could flow through the back releasing the reserve pilot chute. ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Niki1 1 #13 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteWhat exactly is a thru-loop? Is this the same as the regular pin setup? Is it the same as a thru-loop i've heard of for base containers? QuoteQuote The "through loop" used on both the Wonderhog and the Eagle rigs was simply that the loops holding the 2-pin reserve containers closed were one continuous piece run through the bottom of the container in such a way that even if just one of the two pins cleared, the loop could flow through the back releasing the reserve pilot chute. Also the way the elastic loop in a reserve "freebag" works with the locking stows. I think that was also Bill Booths inovation. Remember the rubber "O" rings on Para Flites original bag?Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Mbranch202 1 #14 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteI remember having one of the first wonderhog. Had the plastic ripcord that would break if it got nicked. I think before the 3 rings were out. I remember buchman trying the wrap which was on both eagles that I owned. I never had to try them out. So anyway, I'm not 100% sure which was first... Just going by my history.. In the spring of '74, Gary, Jaybo, Bob Favreau, and Brent McClarty brought Mr. Douglas to DeLand and strarted working on it to be a jump plane. Bill Booth brought a rig he had built. It was a back rig with a wrap-around pilot chute released by a "plastic coated" ripcord. It was thin. With that and a poptop a jumper would be thinner (front-to-back) that with a Security piggy back. A few weeks later Bill showed up with a piggyback version. I think it had the thru loop comming from the reserve pack tray. That idea, of the pin flaps being pulled toward the pack tray, was the begining of the end of the rigs that resembled a refridgerator. As far as Buchman's rig, Mike Ladd had the first one I saw. A nice piece of equipment but I don't remember if it was that year or the year after. Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other. I was a member of the Himalayan Rope (Tony Patterson, Steve Fugleberg, Jay Boynton, Dan Steger, Larry Gossler, Helen Frazer, Mike Branch, Steve Noonan, Bobby Wilson, and one I cannot remember. Twin Beach was flown from Atlanta each weekend. Twin Beaches were used for the '74 ten man event.. Not ten WAY!!!Mike Branch NSCSA #7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Niki1 1 #15 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteeply] Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other. I was a member of the Himalayan Rope (Tony Patterson, Steve Fugleberg, Jay Boynton, Dan Steger, Larry Gossler, Helen Frazer, Mike Branch, Steve Noonan, Bobby Wilson, and one I cannot remember. Twin Beach was flown from Atlanta each weekend. Twin Beaches were used for the '74 ten man event.. Not ten WAY!!! Wow! All those names in the line up really bring flashbacks. I seem to remember Steve Noonan in the door as a floater? Or maybe he was being pinned by Larry Gossler for the base. Dan Steger was the coolest Naval Aviator I have ever met. When he left the Navy no one would ever know he had ever been in the military. I remember he had this squinty eyed smile that lit up the whole area. Last I heard, he was living in St. Augustine but that was over 20 years ago.Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RogerRamjet 0 #16 May 4, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote eply] Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other. I was a member of the Himalayan Rope (Tony Patterson, Steve Fugleberg, Jay Boynton, Dan Steger, Larry Gossler, Helen Frazer, Mike Branch, Steve Noonan, Bobby Wilson, and one I cannot remember. Twin Beach was flown from Atlanta each weekend. Twin Beaches were used for the '74 ten man event.. Not ten WAY!!! Wow! All those names in the line up really bring flashbacks. I seem to remember Steve Noonan in the door as a floater? Or maybe he was being pinned by Larry Gossler for the base. Dan Steger was the coolest Naval Aviator I have ever met. When he left the Navy no one would ever know he had ever been in the military. I remember he had this squinty eyed smile that lit up the whole area. Last I heard, he was living in St. Augustine but that was over 20 years ago. Dan is still there. And yes, the coolest Navel Aviator I've ever met too. Dan Steger story... I was a pretty bad student while on static line doing back flips, front flips, etc. The standard exit from the 182 with step at Z-Hills was being taught as trail a foot, kick up and push off. I was either kicking too much and pushing to a front flip or not enough and pushing to a back flip. Dan took me up for my 8th and 9th static lines. Before going up he asked what trouble I was having. After hearing the procedure, he said, why don't you trail the outside foot as before, but instead of kicking up and pushing off, just do a little side hop? This was too easy and I was cleared for freefall after the 9th static line. I spoke with and demonstrated my new found method to Jim Hooper and Jeff Searles and to their credit, they altered the training to the hop to the side method. I also loved his animated style. One day he had a mal on his cheapo and started screaming "cutaway, cutaway" before he actually cutaway. I styled my cheapo after his adding pull down center lines to my 7TU. Luckily, my cheapo blew up with a may west at about 350 jumps and I "was forced" to buy a new Strato Star ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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Mbranch202 1 #14 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteI remember having one of the first wonderhog. Had the plastic ripcord that would break if it got nicked. I think before the 3 rings were out. I remember buchman trying the wrap which was on both eagles that I owned. I never had to try them out. So anyway, I'm not 100% sure which was first... Just going by my history.. In the spring of '74, Gary, Jaybo, Bob Favreau, and Brent McClarty brought Mr. Douglas to DeLand and strarted working on it to be a jump plane. Bill Booth brought a rig he had built. It was a back rig with a wrap-around pilot chute released by a "plastic coated" ripcord. It was thin. With that and a poptop a jumper would be thinner (front-to-back) that with a Security piggy back. A few weeks later Bill showed up with a piggyback version. I think it had the thru loop comming from the reserve pack tray. That idea, of the pin flaps being pulled toward the pack tray, was the begining of the end of the rigs that resembled a refridgerator. As far as Buchman's rig, Mike Ladd had the first one I saw. A nice piece of equipment but I don't remember if it was that year or the year after. Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other. I was a member of the Himalayan Rope (Tony Patterson, Steve Fugleberg, Jay Boynton, Dan Steger, Larry Gossler, Helen Frazer, Mike Branch, Steve Noonan, Bobby Wilson, and one I cannot remember. Twin Beach was flown from Atlanta each weekend. Twin Beaches were used for the '74 ten man event.. Not ten WAY!!!Mike Branch NSCSA #7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Niki1 1 #15 May 3, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuoteeply] Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other. I was a member of the Himalayan Rope (Tony Patterson, Steve Fugleberg, Jay Boynton, Dan Steger, Larry Gossler, Helen Frazer, Mike Branch, Steve Noonan, Bobby Wilson, and one I cannot remember. Twin Beach was flown from Atlanta each weekend. Twin Beaches were used for the '74 ten man event.. Not ten WAY!!! Wow! All those names in the line up really bring flashbacks. I seem to remember Steve Noonan in the door as a floater? Or maybe he was being pinned by Larry Gossler for the base. Dan Steger was the coolest Naval Aviator I have ever met. When he left the Navy no one would ever know he had ever been in the military. I remember he had this squinty eyed smile that lit up the whole area. Last I heard, he was living in St. Augustine but that was over 20 years ago.Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossilbe before they were done. Louis D Brandeis Where are we going and why are we in this basket? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RogerRamjet 0 #16 May 4, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote eply] Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other. I was a member of the Himalayan Rope (Tony Patterson, Steve Fugleberg, Jay Boynton, Dan Steger, Larry Gossler, Helen Frazer, Mike Branch, Steve Noonan, Bobby Wilson, and one I cannot remember. Twin Beach was flown from Atlanta each weekend. Twin Beaches were used for the '74 ten man event.. Not ten WAY!!! Wow! All those names in the line up really bring flashbacks. I seem to remember Steve Noonan in the door as a floater? Or maybe he was being pinned by Larry Gossler for the base. Dan Steger was the coolest Naval Aviator I have ever met. When he left the Navy no one would ever know he had ever been in the military. I remember he had this squinty eyed smile that lit up the whole area. Last I heard, he was living in St. Augustine but that was over 20 years ago. Dan is still there. And yes, the coolest Navel Aviator I've ever met too. Dan Steger story... I was a pretty bad student while on static line doing back flips, front flips, etc. The standard exit from the 182 with step at Z-Hills was being taught as trail a foot, kick up and push off. I was either kicking too much and pushing to a front flip or not enough and pushing to a back flip. Dan took me up for my 8th and 9th static lines. Before going up he asked what trouble I was having. After hearing the procedure, he said, why don't you trail the outside foot as before, but instead of kicking up and pushing off, just do a little side hop? This was too easy and I was cleared for freefall after the 9th static line. I spoke with and demonstrated my new found method to Jim Hooper and Jeff Searles and to their credit, they altered the training to the hop to the side method. I also loved his animated style. One day he had a mal on his cheapo and started screaming "cutaway, cutaway" before he actually cutaway. I styled my cheapo after his adding pull down center lines to my 7TU. Luckily, my cheapo blew up with a may west at about 350 jumps and I "was forced" to buy a new Strato Star ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
RogerRamjet 0 #16 May 4, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote eply] Also in the spring of '74, Himalayan Rope (sp) stared jumping at DeLand, I seem to remember a Twin Beech but both brain cells may not be co-operating with each other. I was a member of the Himalayan Rope (Tony Patterson, Steve Fugleberg, Jay Boynton, Dan Steger, Larry Gossler, Helen Frazer, Mike Branch, Steve Noonan, Bobby Wilson, and one I cannot remember. Twin Beach was flown from Atlanta each weekend. Twin Beaches were used for the '74 ten man event.. Not ten WAY!!! Wow! All those names in the line up really bring flashbacks. I seem to remember Steve Noonan in the door as a floater? Or maybe he was being pinned by Larry Gossler for the base. Dan Steger was the coolest Naval Aviator I have ever met. When he left the Navy no one would ever know he had ever been in the military. I remember he had this squinty eyed smile that lit up the whole area. Last I heard, he was living in St. Augustine but that was over 20 years ago. Dan is still there. And yes, the coolest Navel Aviator I've ever met too. Dan Steger story... I was a pretty bad student while on static line doing back flips, front flips, etc. The standard exit from the 182 with step at Z-Hills was being taught as trail a foot, kick up and push off. I was either kicking too much and pushing to a front flip or not enough and pushing to a back flip. Dan took me up for my 8th and 9th static lines. Before going up he asked what trouble I was having. After hearing the procedure, he said, why don't you trail the outside foot as before, but instead of kicking up and pushing off, just do a little side hop? This was too easy and I was cleared for freefall after the 9th static line. I spoke with and demonstrated my new found method to Jim Hooper and Jeff Searles and to their credit, they altered the training to the hop to the side method. I also loved his animated style. One day he had a mal on his cheapo and started screaming "cutaway, cutaway" before he actually cutaway. I styled my cheapo after his adding pull down center lines to my 7TU. Luckily, my cheapo blew up with a may west at about 350 jumps and I "was forced" to buy a new Strato Star ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
