My first reserve ride - help speculating

[heftee 0]

I know it's hard to speculate on something you didn't witness, but I'm hoping I can provide enough details that perhaps someone can provide some input. If not, I understand, but maybe I'll say something in here that will lead to some insight. Sorry if long, but I want to provide as much as I can:
I'm not 100% percent sure as some of it is a bit fuzzy and I don't know exactly what caused it. I'll tell you what I can and maybe you can help me with some of the logistics of what may have caused it.
It was my 70th jump, and I learned a lot of lessons from it.

First of all, please know that this was not an equipment malfunction - it was something that I caused.
Here's basically what happened: I was testing out a new canopy - so I pulled higher than normal - good thing # 1. It opened fine - it had a small right side drift before going for the toggles. Turns out there was a tension knot in the right brake line (determined after inspection on the ground). Got the toggles, did a flare - seemed to straighten out the right side drift. All was going well. I was testing the responses to turns (this was a Sabre 2 135 as I've been jumping a ZP 145 - trying to determine if I could downsize).
Next, I wanted to stall the canopy to get a full-flare point. I pulled the toggles all the way down and it slowed down but didn't do a full stall. I was just beginning to roll my wrists a bit to add more length (I have short arms). I either pulled one side too much or let up one side too much or something along those lines to where the stall snapped me and swung me out to the left. I thought I had broken a line, but I had not. It seemed like it stalled and then snapped me afterwards. (I am told from someone one the ground that I was facing into the wind on this maneuver - could this have been an issue? What is the best direction to be facing when doing a stall?)
I'm just not sure. After the swing to the left, I swung back to the right and put myself into a spin causing line twists. Now, normal line twists I can deal with (and have before), but this was a little different. Somewhere between the snap and the swinging pendulum and the twists, I either slipped, or let go of the toggle or something causing the brake line and the toggle to get mixed up in the twist. I don't remember doing this, but I can't imagine how else it would have happened like that. When I looked up, I saw the line twists but also saw my toggle in there. I don't recall letting go of it or not having it at that point, but one of the instructors tells me that it couldn't have been caught up in the twists unless I had let go of it, so I'm relying on his expertise on that. Within an instant, I just knew that I would not be able to undo those twists, and my rule is "if even a shred of doubt, go to plan B immediately, don't try to undo it if you think you might have problems." Now, normally on line twists, I've only had them upon opening and I will immediately go for the risers and begin pulling while looking at my altimeter (before even having the toggles in my hand). Because I knew instantly, I didn't look at my altimeter so I don't know how high I was or how much time I had, but I figured I was well over my hard deck altitude. I likely could have made an attempt or two and had plenty of time, but I didn't bother. The risers were so twisted up that I couldn't look down for my handles - the riser was burning my check. So, at the exact same instant that I looked up and said "nope" I had my hands on my handles. Lesson # 1 - when they say PEEL not pull - they really mean that. I tried pulling then had to peel, duh! Once I got the Velcro undone, the tension in the risers made it very difficult for me to do with one hand. So, I had to let go of my reserve ring and use both hands to pull. That motion put me in belly down position - great - grabbed my reserve and fired it off. (I believe even before the RSL took it). Everything else went off without a hitch - nice reserve ride, sweet landing, all is well. Got the main and the reserve free bag.
Lesson # 2 - I now know that I am capable of reacting quickly in a malfunction and doing what needs to be done in the order it needs to be done, in the time it needs to be done. I kept a level head and everything was fine. After opening my reserve, I flew it nicely and landed great - all was fine!
Lesson #3 - next time, I'm holding on to the handles if I can remember - I let go of the D-ring and it went bye-bye - that's a $40 mistake I'll try not to do again :)

Now, based on that, can you provide any insight to me? What would have caused that "snap" making me swing out? Is there any other way that toggle could have gotten caught up in the twist without me letting go? I just don't remember the fine details of it enough to tell you the exact sequence of events. All I do know is that looking up from the swing, I just could tell immediately that it wasn't worth trying to get the twists out. As it turned out, I saddled out in the reserve at about 1500-1700, so I likely didn't have as much time as I think I did at first. I had intended to pull at 4500 when our group broke off and tracked, but they waved it off a bit below 4500, people turned and tracked, I waited for everyone to clear my way before pulling, so I likely didn't even pull until 3000-3500. Given that I had time to play with the canopy a bit before this happened, I was likely closer to my hard deck anyway, without even looking. So, I'm glad I did what I did. Everyone at the DZ who I spoke to said I did the right thing.

Any insight or suggestions you'd like to provide would be appreciated.

Anyway, just wanted to share. Have a great New Year!

[CanEHdian 0]

I can't comment on the technicalities that may have caused your situation - I'll let the more experienced chime in on that one.

But I would recommend developping a better overall altitude awareness. If you practice good habits and continuously check your altitude, then you don't necessarily have to look when the shyte hits the fan and you need to decide - you should already have a good idea of where you're at and what your situation requires.

Having read your post, it seems that you didn't really know just what your altitude was at breakoff, pull, and before starting to play with the canopy.

Just my observation - congrats on handling things after they turned bad!
Cheers,
CanEHdian

Time's flying, and so am I...
(69-way, 108-way and 138/142-way Freefly World Records)

[heftee 0]

yes, I agree, you are right. I knew that I pulled before 3000 because my ditter is set to 3200 and had not gone off yet. (left that detail out, sorry) I know I was over 2700-2800 when I went for the stall. From there, it was mere seconds. I knew before I got under the canopy after the swing that I was going to chop - as my twists started on my swing back. I don't think I was back to vertical when I did chop. I agree that AA is a huge priority, but once you see the problem and know you are going to chop, taking an extra 3 seconds to look at altimeter is not worth it, in my opinion.
Thank you for the reminder, it's a good lesson.

[dterrick 0]

Cheers on your Beer cutaway, heftee!

Somewhere around the same jump #'s as you I managed to twist up my old Raven II @ about .95:1 TRYING to make it handle like something it was not. I'm sure one of our moderators will chime in with a detailed 'why' but you describe almost to the letter what I did....

Likely, you stalled only one side of the canopy. THAT side stopped flying but the other side continued to fly, likely at a good airspeed. I'm not so clear on what all the lines were doing at that moment but a suden twist could have left some lines slack and they then caught your steering line causing the tension knot. After that, you're FUBAR'd as far as I know. (Any comments anyone?)


Whatever the case, you wrapped yours waaay better than I did mine. The fact that I spun up a big 7 cell proves that it can happen under ANY canopy.

Regarding the wind direction issue... it's not an issue. I too thought it was at the time. The KEY to remember is that it is only your GROUNDSPEED that changes, not your airspeed. So, in a spiral you will have an eliptical pattern over the ground but your spiral will actually be circular.

Dave

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

[Kris 0]

Here are a few things that I noticed...

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Turns out there was a tension knot in the right brake line (determined after inspection on the ground)

This is why it is very important to actually look up at your canopy to check it after opening. A tension knot is not an easily-missed item if you do a proper inspection after opening.

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I either slipped, or let go of the toggle or something causing the brake line and the toggle to get mixed up in the twist.

You may want to have an experienced jumper take a look at how you are holding your toggles. You should have your hand through the loop with the fabric resting across your palm. If you're just holding the toggles in your fingers you may drop one when you need it most.

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and my rule is "if even a shred of doubt, go to plan B immediately

"When in doubt, whip it out" is generally a pretty good rule of thumb. Good on you for actually following it.

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I didn't look at my altimeter so I don't know how high I was or how much time I had, but I figured I was well over my hard deck altitude.

Tsk, tsk, tsk... Always know thy altitude lest the ground come up and smite thee. It could have really ruined your day to have cutaway at 300 feet because you lost track of altitude and spiraled lower than you thought.

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when they say PEEL not pull - they really mean that. I tried pulling then had to peel, duh!

This is where some muscle memory will really help. When you practice doing your cutaway and reserve, you also need to make the peeling of the velcro part of the practice. If you don't, then you will not do it in the air, you will just do what you had practiced.

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grabbed my reserve and fired it off. (I believe even before the RSL took it).

Nope, nobody is that fast.

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Lesson #3 - next time, I'm holding on to the handles if I can remember - I let go of the D-ring and it went bye-bye - that's a $40 mistake I'll try not to do again :)

No piece of equipment is worth your life. If you need to jettison gear, handles, helmets, etc... to work on a problem, get rid of it. You can always buy another.

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I am told from someone one the ground that I was facing into the wind on this maneuver - could this have been an issue?

That had no bearing whatsoever on your malfunction. Your canopy does not care where things like "downwind" and "upwind" are. Airspeed and groundspeed are two different things. Your canopy was moving through a mass of air like it is supposed to, that's all.


Now, as to what may have caused your mal... well, you may have stalled the canopy un-evenly. If you allow one side to stall / recover more than the other, you can induce some serious line-twists. A stall should not be a sudden, violent maneuver. You should gradually ease into it and then evenly and smoothly recover out of it.

Also, a tension knot would have affected how much control input went into one side of the canopy over the other. So, while you thought you were even with the toggle input, you really weren't because of the knot in the lines.

Tension knots are one of those things that nobody can really predict, but it is important that you make sure that your lines are straight & even when packing and stowing the lines. Any twists or loop-throughs can possibly cause a tension knot.

The important thing is that you've now learned several things, you're asking the right questions, and hopefully you'll learn to not let it happen again.

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[Samurai136 0]

Who ever packed it last did not check the brake lines for tension knots. If the brake line looks like it's spun up like a yo-yo string, that's the tension knot. Just like a yo-yo, if the toggle is allowed to spin up after it's released under canopy eventually the brakeline will become shorter because it's knoting up on itself.

That's why it seemed the canopy was drifting to the right. The tension knot made the right brake line shorter inducing a slight turn while the brakes were set. Additionally, any canopy is very sensative to spinning up at the stall point.

From your perspective you may have thought you were giving an even full flare to the stall point but actually were pulling the right brakeline further. When the canopy stalled it had a right turn built in which caused it to spin up, throwing you to the left... and you know the rest of the story. Why you lost the toggle depends on the kind of grip you take on the toggle. All that matters is that an unexpected diving turn caused you to lose the toggle. It happens.

Suggestions:
1. pack the main yourself.
2. Check for tension knots on brake lines. From the cascade junction near the tail on the brake line, place it between your index finger and thumb and walk the line to the toggle. If the line shows twisting, remove it by spinning the toggle in the opposite direction until the line is no longer twisted. No more tension knot.
3. be aware that canopies are very unstable at their stall point. Radical inputs can induce linetwists.

Otherwise it sounds like you reacted properly in an emergency situation. Good Job!

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[billvon 2,434]

I moved this over to safety and training since a lot of safety issues are being discussed here, and more people watch this forum for those sort of questions.

>I pulled the toggles all the way down and it slowed down but didn't
>do a full stall.

Are you sure? How do you know you didn't stall it?

>I was just beginning to roll my wrists a bit to add more length (I
> have short arms). I either pulled one side too much or let up one
> side too much or something along those lines to where the stall
> snapped me and swung me out to the left.

I see three possibilities.

One, you stalled the canopy, and did not keep your hands level during the recovery. On ellipticals you _must_ keep your hands level and let them back up gradually in at least two steps after a stall.

Two, you dropped a toggle. It would make sense considering the later development, and would do what you described.

Three, you didn't clear the tension knot, and it caused the canopy to fly erratically (including stall too early and fall off to one side.)

Could also be a combination of any of the three.

> (I am told from someone one the ground that I was facing into the
> wind on this maneuver - could this have been an issue? What is the
> best direction to be facing when doing a stall?)

It doesn't matter.

>Once I got the Velcro undone, the tension in the risers made it very
> difficult for me to do with one hand. So, I had to let go of my
> reserve ring and use both hands to pull.

This is an excellent reason for practicing the two-hands-per-handle cutaway procedure instead of the one-hand-per-handle procedure.

[craddock 0]

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You may want to have an experienced jumper take a look at how you are holding your toggles. You should have your hand through the loop with the fabric resting across your palm. If you're just holding the toggles in your fingers you may drop one when you need it most.

Interesting- I have never heard of a particular way to hold toggles that is considered to be the correct method. I believe that every individual should decide for themselves what they feel most comfortable with. I use my pinky and ring finger only to hold on to the toggles. This is what works best for me. I feel that I am Much less apt to drop a toggle than I would using your method. I never felt comfortable like that and swithed early on. Fingers can get very sore on X country or CRW jumps though.

To each his own,
Josh

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[mewing120 0]

To each his own for sure ,
I am guilty of holding my toggles too loosly with a couple of fingers too. I watch a student one day cartwheel across the ground because on flare he dropped a toggle. I think holding the toggle completely with your palm is the safest method.

My canopy (turbo Z 185, 1.1:1), if I stall it and quickly let up a toggle will sharply dive leaving me almost above it before I swing underneath. a little scary sometimes. If it was smaller would probably result in a twiswt. Maybe your issue?

Ora Vivo

[DJL 232]

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I am guilty of holding my toggles too loosly with a couple of fingers too.

Yeah, me too. I don't even put my fingers through the loops. I'm having my rigger make a set of toggles with blocks on them.

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My canopy (turbo Z 185, 1.1:1)

Yeah, my canopy too. Do you know anyone who wants one? Trying to buy a Tri-Hybrid.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[DaMan 0]

Same here-I've had good luck with this method!

Z-Flock 8
Discotec Rodriguez

Too bad weapons grade stupidity doesn't lead to sterility.

[JYorkster 0]

Josh,

I used to feel that way, too. Then I lost a friend who lost a toggle as he was flaring. Now I am pretty picky about how I hold my toggles. Even though everyone may find their own comfort zone, why are you using the two weakest fingers in your hand? I don't think I've ever noticed anyone else hold their toggles that way.

Just curious,
Rock

[craddock 0]

Rock,
I started working on high performance landings very early in my skydiving career and started holding the toggles this way early on. As everyone thought I was quickly going to become a statistic , I wanted to reduce my chance of that happening everyway I could without slowing down. I too had a friend that believes he lost a toggle. It appears as though it actually came off of the brake line before impact. We will never know as he has no memory. I was not skydiving yet when this accident occurred but it was always on my mind.
Because of this fear, I played with everyway imaginable to hold the toggles. I started using this method because it allowed me to use two fingers for toggles and the other two for various riser input. If I make a fist and then attempt to open up my first two fingers for the risers, my muscle memory wants to open my whole hand. I think this comes from years ago when I had a habit of not letting go of the rope quick enough when taking a fall barefoot waterskiing. I worked hard on and off the water to break myself of that habit.
I tried to use my middle and pointer finger for more strength when holding the toggles but I would give up power when operating the front risers. I was not willing to make this sacrifice. Large amounts of strenth is not required to hold the toggles. As I mentioned they do get tired on CRW jumps(not nearly as much as the rest of my body does holding a downplane on my 80 sq ft canopy) but I feel that this pain is a small price for me to pay for the confidence I have that I will not lose a toggle. Holding the toggles any other way just feels unnatural now.
Like I said-to each his own
Josh

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[rtroup 1]

same thing happen to me on a sabre 2 loaded at about 1.3 - 1.4. i stalled it (i don't have to wrap the lines to get it to stall) and when i went to recover it let up on the toggles about 3 inches then it went to hell. it shook me so violently i let all the way up on toggle while still holding one down. then it went into line twist and i was spinning on my back. pulling on the toggles after that did nothing because there were so many twist the steering lines had to much tension on them. i didn't try anything after that because the g forces were just to much. i can't get my canopy to spin that hard if i berry one toggle all the way down. lost the canopy. thank god it was a demo. but we found it three months later.

odds are when your canopy started flying with linetwist you had uneven toggles. i hope this helps you.

(insert philosophical quote here)