Hooknswoop 19 #26 February 11, 2003 QuoteHave had stuck toggles a couple of times, once i even had both come free and twist around each other(unevenly, of course) about 20 times (no shit.. i have the video to prove it.. see image) How did that happen? Did the toggles come out in free-fall and wrap around each other? Hook Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #27 February 11, 2003 Quote Dude, you could sale that pic to the folks who did the Breakaway video...scary. *grin* got out of it, though.... Really freaky thing was that the EXACT same thing happened to the guy who i bought it from. Different risers, different toggles.. *shrug* he chopped it. Was a swell way to start WFFC that year Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #28 February 11, 2003 Quote How did that happen? Did the toggles come out in free-fall and wrap around each other? I don't see how... with secondary riser covers that run the length of the reserve container my rig would have had to have been open. Unless i didn't tuck them under, i doubt it, but i had only had the rig for a month.... still doubt it, though. My theory is that it happened on the way to line-stretch, as the first frames i have are with them tangled. I figure the canopy had goofy juju... that happened twice on the same canopy with different risers and toggles, to 2 different people, with 2 different types of rigs, and i've never had it happen again on any other canopy. Nor have i heard about it from anyone else i know. Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #29 February 11, 2003 Quote Use 2 hands, it goes quicker (...) Anyway, what i've found works great is pulling the free toggle down past your face until you're in level flight.. the bite the line there to hold it and you can work on the other brake with both hands. Yes, that could work... So you've tried it? I think that there might be quite a lot of pull on the steering line, is it easy to hold it with your teeth? And if you're feeling really adventurous, you could pull the free toggle down to level your canopy, trap the steering line with your other hand above to guide ring, and re-set the half-brake. That way you could use both hands to free the stuck toggle, and you would have your mouth free to scream profanities at the canopy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #30 February 11, 2003 Quote Yes, that could work... So you've tried it? I think that there might be quite a lot of pull on the steering line, is it easy to hold it with your teeth? couple of times. And i supposed it could be a lot of pull depending on the canopy. I wouldn't want to try it on a tandem rig or under an excalibur 260 (LOTS of toggle pressure), but on my sabre and viper 170s loaded 1.3-1.4 it was doable. ***NOTE*** Please please please PLEASE, make sure to have the altitude to play with this stuff. If you're at 3k with a stuck toggle and you think you can deal with it, cool. If you're at 1500, just chop the thing. I'd rather see someone chop from something that was fixable then someone not xhop from something that wasn't. Quote And if you're feeling really adventurous, you could pull the free toggle down to level your canopy, trap the steering line with your other hand above to guide ring, and re-set the half-brake. This is actually a real pain-in-the-ass to do. Basically wither the line is pulled too tight to get the toggle through the eyelet, or the line is too loose to get the toggle through the eyelet... it's a very gentle balance of where you grab the line in relation to the eyelet to as to have even a modicum of control over both pieces -- but it can be done. You can use biting here too (lets you control the tension from above and below), but the problem is that you'll be turning the OTHER way, since you need to pull more line down to be able to reach it to bite, so you could end up stalling depending on your canopy and brake settings.... be careful. -jerm Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #31 February 11, 2003 QuoteI had about the same on jump 60 or so the loop was too big and came over the toggel , I couldn´t get it loos so after 3 attmpt or so was at 2000 and decided to land it with one stuk and one pull to half brake toggel , was not my best landing ever but at the time and now still I think I will not chop it. I'm glad this worked out ok for you, and that you had the presence of mind to NOT keep both toggles level in your flare... good job. I would like to remind everyone, though, that i guy died last year thinking he could handle this. And he did, up until about 400 ft. From there he spiralled into the ground, either because the other toggle slipped, or he forgot to keep them even, or something (anyone who knows this incident better want to comment, did he ever get to tell anyone what happened?) I'd rather see someone re-stow the other brake and prepare to PLF and try and land this way. Either way you're going to be flying in half-brakes, and one way has much less chance of something going wrong in the last few seconds. Glad you're ok, but please be careful with this. -jerm Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #32 February 11, 2003 Quote I'd rather see someone re-stow the other brake and prepare to PLF and try and land this way. Either way you're going to be flying in half-brakes, and one way has much less chance of something going wrong in the last few seconds. I had a stuck brake once, good thing it was on a CREW jump. We got out at 9000 ft, I had an open canopy at about 8000 ft (no I wasn't jumping a Lightning) and was swearing at the thing all through 5500 ft when I finally got it loose. Didn't think about biting the line, would've helped me for sure. I put the toggle round my arm for a bit to keep the canopy level but thought better of that (afraid it would get/stay stuck). Re-stowing the other brake wasn't really an option I thought. Didn't have as much dexterity as I would've liked because I had pretty thick gloves on. Ended up letting the canopy spin a bit to have both hands free to get the tension off the little loop that had gotten stuck. If I couldn't clear it before 4000 ft I would've tried to (toggle) flare up high, to see if that would work. Probably would have since it was a 1:1 loaded Triathlon and there was a bit of wind. If not, too bad, c-ya. Which bugged me, cause that was the 2nd time I had a 'minor' mal on this canopy: first time I jumped the thing the slider stayed way up for 3000 ft. As it was, I fixed the brake in time, got my instructor back at 5000 ft and was so angry at the $%^^ canopy (and at myself for f*ng up my first few stairsteps the jump before) that I really FLEW those remaining 2000 ft before separation. Got my stairsteps done. With a vengeance. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #33 February 11, 2003 >I'd rather see someone re-stow the other brake . . . Easier said than done. I tried to do it once when I couldn't release my other brake; couldn't do it. You need three hands. My girlfriend tried to do it and couldn't do it either; she ended up landing in half brakes in Mexico. My recommendation - pull the brake to 'stowed' length, then wrap the line around the riser and grab the entire riser with your hand, trapping the brake line. Now steer (and perhaps flare) with both rear risers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Staso 0 #34 February 12, 2003 i got the same cutaway 3 months ago: http://dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=267243 also right toggle. it was too deep in the line loop and stuck there. stan. -- it's not about defying gravity; it's how hard you can abuse it. speed skydiving it is ... Speed Skydiving Forum Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JGarcia 0 #35 February 12, 2003 Same steering line issue happened to me on my first Camera jump. Not fun, went to unstow my brakes, one cleared, the other didn't. Almost didn't make it to the airport because it took me 'til 1500 ft to solve the problem. Good thing I deplyed at 3500' following my first attempt at filming a Tandem. One can avoid the situation by how you stow your brakes. I stowed my brakes a certain way when I jumped my Stilleto 135 and after the 3rd time decided to figure out a better way...hasn't happened since. I'd elaborate, but someone's waiting for me outside, honking their horn. Doh!Cheers! --Jairo Low Profile, snag free helmet mount for your Sony X3000 action cam! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
faulknerwn 37 #36 February 13, 2003 Quote I'd rather see someone re-stow the other brake and prepare to PLF and try and land this way. Either way you're going to be flying in half-brakes, and one way has much less chance of something going wrong in the last few seconds. Has anyone ever managed to actually do this? I've tried and haven't even been able to come close. I just normally fly with one rear riser while working on the other toggle, though I have done the teeth thing before. Had a tension knot and it enabled be to use both hands to clear it (this was on a CRW jump though and had plenty of time.) If it were me, I wouldn't try restowing the brake because I'd be surprised if its possible. Far easier said than done for sure. W Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerm 0 #37 February 13, 2003 Quote Has anyone ever managed to actually do this? I've tried and haven't even been able to come close. I managed it once.... though i've only needed it 2 or 3 times ever....... referring to my earlier post: QuoteThis is actually a real pain-in-the-ass to do. Basically either the line is pulled too tight to get the toggle through the eyelet, or the line is too loose to get the toggle through the eyelet... it's a very gentle balance of where you grab the line in relation to the eyelet to as to have even a modicum of control over both pieces -- but it can be done. You can use biting here too (lets you control the tension from above and below), but the problem is that you'll be turning the OTHER way, since you need to pull more line down to be able to reach it to bite, so you could end up stalling depending on your canopy and brake settings.... be careful Landing without injury is not necessarily evidence that you didn't fuck up... it just means you got away with it this time Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
