LawnDart21 0 #1 April 16, 2003 I'm finding myself doing more Cessna tandems these days, and was just wondering what exit method other Tandem masters prefer when going out of a Cessna? I like backing into the hot seat and turning outward towards the step is working best, but if I have a large passenger (I'm 6'1"), I have to move them straight out the door feet first. What do you prefer? -- My other ride is a RESERVE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dterrick 0 #2 April 16, 2003 that's what I generally see at our 182 DZ when I chase tandems Two of our TM's are fairly big guys themselves and I think you've hit on about the only 2 exits possible. I'm sure 1st person stories will follow soon Dave Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slotperfect 7 #3 April 16, 2003 I've not done a TON out of a Cessna, but this works really well for me, and I'm 6'2" 220lbs. Video sits in the student position next to the pilot. My tandem student sits behind the pilot. I sit next to the Tandem Student, just aft of Video. At hook-up altitude, I roll over and back up. I get my student up, check his harness, helmet, etc. then have him kneel in front of me, facing forward, looking straight at the Video. We hook up and tighten down here. Door comes open, Video climbs out. We walk on our knees as far forward as we can, then BOTH of us put our right foot out. I then have the Tandem Student put his right foot out next to the left and put arms in the exit position. I have my hand protecting the drogue during this moving around. This leaves my Tandem Student almost completely out of the plane, and I am as far forward in the door as I can go, squatting on my left foot. When it's time to go, I simply step out (squatted down 'cause I'm so tall), use the relative wind to help me push off the step, and dive out and down. This exit really works well for me. One difference: -If there is no Video, I will sit in the "student" position next to the pilot with the Tandem Student sitting immediately aft of me between my legs. We hook up and tighten here. Door comes open, and we simply put feet out as described above, and I "scooch" myself up into the squatting on the left leg position and out we go. I dislike the poised exit position because the door and the window sill in the door really interfere with my reserve pin. I tried it, and I don't lie it at all. Hope this helps.Arrive Safely John Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kskold 0 #4 April 16, 2003 All my Tamdem jumps have been from cessna's in basically the same manor. Both TM and student on their knees and hooked up. Move to door. I place my right leg out door and foot on step. I slide both our heads out the door. On command, student swings knees out door. Once knees clear door, I motion pilot and plane is banked quickly to the right. The door becomes a floor and we are out clean. Only variation is with tall or largeer students i have left them sitting and put both their feet out onto to step. Definitely not the only way, just the way i learned and only way I've do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #5 April 16, 2003 QuoteI've not done a TON out of a Cessna, but this works really well for me, and I'm 6'2" 220lbs. -If there is no Video, I will sit in the "student" position next to the pilot with the Tandem Student sitting immediately aft of me between my legs. We hook up and tighten here. Door comes open, and we simply put feet out as described above, and I "scooch" myself up into the squatting on the left leg position and out we go. I dislike the poised exit position because the door and the window sill in the door really interfere with my reserve pin. I tried it, and I don't lie it at all. Hope this helps. ------------------------------------------------------------ Slotperfect's second method is my favorite, and I have probably done it a thousand times. I usually sit with my back to the pilot's seat and have the photographer kneel in the doorway. Once he is out, I tell the student to slide sideways, then towards the front of the cabin. I slap the student's left thigh, point at the step and yell "feet out!" The student crouches with ass on heels, puts his hands on his chest, leans his head back to wink at the cameraman. My left foot is on the wheel with my right foot in the rear corner of the doorframe. I wink at the photographer, and rock "ready, set, go!" The student's next task is kicking me in the buttocks. Usually I tuck up my legs too and extend my arms above my head, so we go "vertical" for a few seconds, then flatten out. 9/10 of these exits quickly flatten out. This exit only gets unstable if the student extends their legs. Ironically, this exit is not in Strong Enterprises' textbook. Mind you, I gave up on most of their textbook exits a decade ago, after bending a reserve pin on a door handle. If I get stuck in the front of our Cessna 205, I have to be careful not to bump the engine controls. The photographer usually kneels between the student's knees on jump run. The toughest part is convincing students to keep their knees flat on the floor while the photographer climbs out. They instinctively raise their knees to "help" which only blocks the door. My broad shoulders make it awkward for me to sit with my back against the instrument panel, but many smaller tandem instructors report that it is their favorite seat. We do a simplified version of this exit from King Airs, just tell the student to put their toes on the silver doorsill, crouch down yada yada. Blue skies. Rob Warner 2300 tandems, mostly on Strongs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #6 April 17, 2003 ....then there was the time (as a student) we both stood on the step (all 4 feet), with hands on the strut and rolled off doing backloops...ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #7 April 17, 2003 6'6" 240# jumping a Cessna 182 I pitch the student out the door, then do a diving exit to catch them, hook em up in freefall and pitch the drogue. Am I doing this right? ...Bigun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tspillers 0 #8 April 17, 2003 I basically do slotperfect's method with one difference. After hookup, I lean back and let them get their feet out from under them. I can them move them easily and all they have to do is keep their feet in front of them. For the exit, I have them place both feet on the step and I am on my knees in the plane. I generally do a flip out of the plane first timers and I rotate on exit to fly the relative wind. I also teach (Examiner for RWS) the right leg of you and the student out on the step. The only trick to this is to not tighten up and lean back too soon or you may find you legs getting a bit uncomfortable. I will generally have everything hooked and tightened except the lower connectors and talk them through the dive again. About a minute prior, I tighten the lowers and let them get their legs in front. Hope this helps. Todd I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 10 #9 April 17, 2003 Ok...this is a little off topic but... Q. What do you do for load fill on a 182 and who goes first. "TI,student,cameraman=1 slot free" "TI and student only = 2 slots free" ...mike ----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tspillers 0 #10 April 17, 2003 Mike, TI, student, Camera, 1 slot free Camera next to pilot, student behind pilot, TI in back facing camera, or next to student if there is a W&B issue. Same with 1 fun jumper - jumper next to pilot, camera next to student, TI in back. TI, student - try to avoid by get a jumper or 2 (I am DZO and only a money issue), but when it happens, I have student next to pilot. Some people like to have the TI next to pilot and I have seen bigger guys then me do it (Eric Butts), but I don't like it. In a narrow body, the rig doesn't really fit there and it interfere with the pilots operation of control (mixture, throttle, reading gauges, etc.). The only thing to be aware of is in an emergency, you have to hook one attachment up facing them, roll them onto their knees open door an go with your foot on the step. I would recommend practicing this on the ground if you use this. Todd I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 10 #11 April 17, 2003 Todd ok..what about exits. I would not feel comfortable letting someone out at 4000' if you have a student in the A/C with no parachute" tandem student". So lets say everyone gets out at altitude...do you let just anybody follow you out? Do you take separate passes or let them out first? ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tspillers 0 #12 April 17, 2003 As we teach in the course, tandems and low passes are a bad combination. There is an interesting incident we cite in the course. Most jumpers go out before the tandem unless they are doing crew or if I am allowing them to lurk. And no, I don't let just anyone lurk. Todd I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #13 April 19, 2003 If we need a fun jumper or two to fill a Cessna load, I sit with my back against the pilot's seat and the student sits between my knees. Fun jumpers sit in the front of the plane and exit first. Fun jumpers exiting any lower than 10,000' are discouraged. Note: this is partly a local air traffic control restriction. IAD and tandem students on the same load are a definite no-no. Lurking tandems is rare at Pitt Meadows. The last person that lurked me was on the 300 way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 10 #14 April 19, 2003 Todd Thanks for the info... Quote Most jumpers go out before the tandem Next question...Do you take another pass to increase vertical separation between the last fun jumper and your tandem exit, in case of drogue failure and the related increase in rate of decent? ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikeat10500 10 #15 April 19, 2003 Rob Quote ...I sit with my back against the pilot's seat and the student sits between my knees. I like this idea...sounds good for C. of G. and the student would be close for hook up fast. ...mike----------------------------------- Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1 Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tspillers 0 #16 April 19, 2003 I don't personally. On a tandem I am not worried about getting back going further into the wind. I can pull high if need be to make it back. I have seen Instructors take a second pass and get out right over the other jumps. Granted they are much lower by then, but out of a 182 I just can't justify a go around for those issues. Obviously, there are other reasons for a possible go around. Most of the time I have a vidiot with me so I try to keep in mind how far out we are and I make sure they know if I pull high, they may want to as well. I also will signal them sometimes. Just make sure they know what signal you are giving and what it means. I am not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
