lurch 0
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Lurch
Could I...no
Would I...(I had to think about it a lot....still no)
...mike
Could I...no
Would I...(I had to think about it a lot....still no)
...mike
-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.
lurch 0
I think possibly the hardest part of discarding the last traces of my childhood religion structure was accepting the loss of the promised immortality. As a christian there is always the fundamental assumption of conciousness awareness and existence after death. Realizing over time that that was just one of a bunch of different and equally wrong belief sets sucked. None of them (religions)ever even refer to reality for reference, they all just claim to offer answers to questions that don't have answers, and thats the end of it, take my word for it, it's all in this little book right here.... This makes no sense to me. Ever notice how when you find one of the answers to one of the great questions in life the answer itself comes in the form of two more questions? This is why I'm an atheist. Religion begins and ends in one single cipher point thats supposed to explain everything. They call that point GOD. "I am the alpha and the omega". For all questions, refer to that. Closed system, dead end. I choose the exact opposite of that. I'm curious and inquisitive and I want to know why. So I ask questions. Look for the 2-question answers. Answer them. Chase the four questions that result. Answer em. Now I got 16 questions well, that was 4,345,961 questions ago.......I look forward to a lifetime of futile but totally satisfying question chasing. It's fun instructive and rewarding and much easier on the knees.
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.
Lurch
Giving up the idea of life after death was the easy
part for me....being alone while alive has been the
hard part.
...mike
Giving up the idea of life after death was the easy
part for me....being alone while alive has been the
hard part.
...mike
-----------------------------------
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.
Mike Wheadon B-3715,HEMP#1
Higher Expectations for Modern Parachutists.
lurch 0
Isn't that ironic? I'm the antisocial solitary type. Having spent too much time around screamingly dysfunctional people I find myself better off with no company. For me, solitude just sorta happens and I long ago got ok with that. Sorta. The immortality crash resulting from loss of religion makes the deaths of others suck more, though. The whole "only here once could be gone any day better make it good" thought train. I been thinking about that a lot lately what with all the skydiving accidents lately...added to which I just lost 2 not-quite-distant relatives (a great uncle and a cousin) to brain/lung cancer and a car wreck, respectively, in the past eight days and had my first reserve ride last friday. Also had two extreme near-miss accident evasions on highway in the same period. I'm beginning to feel like an endangered species and starting to expect snipers in trees and ninjas waiting for me around corners any day now. I'm continuing to skydive every chance I get, but very, very carefully....
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.
First of all, I am an atheist. My main complaint about religion is that it is by-product of someone else's story. Religion is not fundamental (although, perhaps, some parts of the brain are hardwired to appeal to religion). I don't have a problem with anyone's personal beliefs, but I do have a problem when I see people BRAINWASHED into believing something. Think about this, for you "christians", would you be christian if you parent's weren't? I know many of you that answer yes will claim that your parents were only christian by name, and you are by faith, but that is all crap. I often ask devout christians if they would have been christian if they were, for example, born in iran to muslim parents. They claim that "god" would have found a way to them. That is just bs. You throw a child out in the country to fend for themselves and show me that in 20 years they are "chrisitians" as the bible would have them be. or show me a born muslim that converted to christianity without the help of some bible thumping "god's soldier." Hopefully in this long rant, you might be starting to see my point. Without preachers and christians shining their "enlightened" ways on us barbarians to save us, there would not be christianity. Does anyone else see a problem with this? Don't you think that atleast suggests that religion is something made up and perpetuated by people?
edited to continue rant:
heres my point:
take 2 people, and put them on indentical versions of an uninhabited earth. give one (or both) the ability to read, write, and understand math. and give the other (or both) the ability to comprehend religion (whatever the hell that means). given enough time, the first person, should be able to understand the mechanics of the universe exactly as we do today. afterall, the principles he is using (not including theoretical modern sciences) are fundamental. they are proven and repeatable.
now the other guy. what are the chances he is going to be a christian? i claim 0%. for you christians out there, you will claim god will save him. i suppose the idea of a world without god is alien to you. however, who told you about god? god? or some guy every sunday morning for the first 15 years of your life? i would also claim the latter.
arguments welcome, although, might be better to start religion thread elsewhere
edited to continue rant:
heres my point:
take 2 people, and put them on indentical versions of an uninhabited earth. give one (or both) the ability to read, write, and understand math. and give the other (or both) the ability to comprehend religion (whatever the hell that means). given enough time, the first person, should be able to understand the mechanics of the universe exactly as we do today. afterall, the principles he is using (not including theoretical modern sciences) are fundamental. they are proven and repeatable.
now the other guy. what are the chances he is going to be a christian? i claim 0%. for you christians out there, you will claim god will save him. i suppose the idea of a world without god is alien to you. however, who told you about god? god? or some guy every sunday morning for the first 15 years of your life? i would also claim the latter.
arguments welcome, although, might be better to start religion thread elsewhere
QuoteWithout preachers and christians shining their "enlightened" ways on us barbarians to save us, there would not be christianity.
I agree this is a thread for a another forum, but since you posted here... You are true in what you said (quoted) above, although I disagree with your term "barbarians". That is why Jesus gave us the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20). He told us to go and tell the world about him. The problem is too many do not follow the Apostle Peter's admonishment to "... in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. 1 Peter 3"125 (NIV)
Too many Christians leave out the gentleness and respect.
gjhdiver 0
Quote
Define atheist please.
Define atheist please.Certainly. In describing my belief system, it refers to an absense of a belief in any single or multiple supernatural agencies, afterlife, or grand plan. I believe that we are all there is, and ultimatley we only answer to each other.
My personal belief is that religion is organized superstition, but I have no more problem with a religious person than I do with someone who believes in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. It's only when said person tries to foist their beliefs upon me, or enact their favorite superstition into public policy that I lose patience with them. I'd prefer my boogies free and clear of that nonsense, but if there was a tent there, I'd just ignore it, as long as the favor is returned.
Ahhh... nothing like a good sales seminar.
Getting the customer to talk about the product:
"Would you mind if I talked to you about a new car?"
Identifying objections:
"Yes? Great..."
"No? You don't want a new car? Why not?"
Doing the homework:
An experienced salesman has heard all the objections before and has an answer for each of the ojbections.
Wear the customer down:
Keep talking about it even if the customer is not interested. Effect a jovial demeanor. For any disagreements, "agree to disagree" and establish comraderie.
Success:
The whole point of the conversation was to talk about the car, so whether they say yes or no, you still get to talk about the car.
General uses of these techniques:
Selling cars, picking up girls in bars, religion, internet trolls.
If the goal was to start a discussion on relgion, here we is...
Getting the customer to talk about the product:
"Would you mind if I talked to you about a new car?"
Identifying objections:
"Yes? Great..."
"No? You don't want a new car? Why not?"
Doing the homework:
An experienced salesman has heard all the objections before and has an answer for each of the ojbections.
Wear the customer down:
Keep talking about it even if the customer is not interested. Effect a jovial demeanor. For any disagreements, "agree to disagree" and establish comraderie.
Success:
The whole point of the conversation was to talk about the car, so whether they say yes or no, you still get to talk about the car.
General uses of these techniques:
Selling cars, picking up girls in bars, religion, internet trolls.
If the goal was to start a discussion on relgion, here we is...
I agree -- personally I believe the vein of thought on the original question has played out. I received my input and I will contemplate on what to do next. I appreciate all those who participated, especially those who had constructive ideas (like water to drink and "don't preach" or "hand out tracts outside the tent". I even appreciated those who said "Stay the hell away from my DZ!" 
On to better topics and things -- Blue skies and calm winds in OK today -- I'm outta here!
loughery 0
Correction:
From Websters Dictionary
"1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.
2. A godless person."
I for one am a "godless person" I sometimes call myself an athiest and sometimes call my self an agnostic. It does not matter which one you call me I do not beleive in a god or many gods. My wife is Pagan and even she gives me crap for not believing in something.
All I know is that I am a good person and treat others as I would like to be treated. No I do not beleive in heavin or hell also. Make the most of your life because you only have one.
FYI here is some history on the word Agnostic for anyone that wants to haggle the meaning.
" An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist. The term agnostic was fittingly coined by the 19th-century British scientist Thomas H. Huxley, who believed that only material phenomena were objects of exact knowledge. He made up the word from the prefix a-, meaning “without, not,” as in amoral, and the noun Gnostic. Gnostic is related to the Greek word gnsis, “knowledge,” which was used by early Christian writers to mean “higher, esoteric knowledge of spiritual things” hence, Gnostic referred to those with such knowledge. In coining the term agnostic, Huxley was considering as “Gnostics” a group of his fellow intellectuals“ists,” as he called themwho had eagerly embraced various doctrines or theories that explained the world to their satisfaction. Because he was a “man without a rag of a label to cover himself with,” Huxley coined the term agnostic for himself, its first published use being in 1870."
From The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
TOT
From Websters Dictionary
"1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.
2. A godless person."
I for one am a "godless person" I sometimes call myself an athiest and sometimes call my self an agnostic. It does not matter which one you call me I do not beleive in a god or many gods. My wife is Pagan and even she gives me crap for not believing in something.
All I know is that I am a good person and treat others as I would like to be treated. No I do not beleive in heavin or hell also. Make the most of your life because you only have one.
FYI here is some history on the word Agnostic for anyone that wants to haggle the meaning.
" An agnostic does not deny the existence of God and heaven but holds that one cannot know for certain whether or not they exist. The term agnostic was fittingly coined by the 19th-century British scientist Thomas H. Huxley, who believed that only material phenomena were objects of exact knowledge. He made up the word from the prefix a-, meaning “without, not,” as in amoral, and the noun Gnostic. Gnostic is related to the Greek word gnsis, “knowledge,” which was used by early Christian writers to mean “higher, esoteric knowledge of spiritual things” hence, Gnostic referred to those with such knowledge. In coining the term agnostic, Huxley was considering as “Gnostics” a group of his fellow intellectuals“ists,” as he called themwho had eagerly embraced various doctrines or theories that explained the world to their satisfaction. Because he was a “man without a rag of a label to cover himself with,” Huxley coined the term agnostic for himself, its first published use being in 1870."
From The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
TOT
TOT
www.SkydiveMoncton.com
To my wife: 'If you ask me to stop skydiving, you are asking me to move out!'
www.SkydiveMoncton.com
To my wife: 'If you ask me to stop skydiving, you are asking me to move out!'
sducoach 0
Thanks, you just proved the point.
Blues,
J.E.
James 4:8
lurch 0
Huh? I did? How? when? what? (lurch drops his baseball bat with a clatter) Oh forget it this thread is beaten to death and I've spent way too much time thinking and typing here.
-lurch
-lurch
Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.
apoil 0
Quote
Another thing i want to know is why so many of you seem to feel SO threatend by this?????
it makes no sence to me, i mean if i dont like what i hear on the radio i change the channel....
Many of us go to the dropzone as a way of "changing the channel"
It's not so much that we are threatened. I am not threatened by christian ministries. However, don't try to convince yourself that it is being set up to be "there for the people that want it"
The people that want it, know where to find it.
It's being set up as an outreach, for the people that they think, might want it, and not realize it, or might need it and not know it. That is intrinsically bothersome to me, because it's based on the core assumption that theirs is the only belief system that will lead to the only desireable outcome of life, ie "salvation". The majority of the world population does not share this viewpoint.
Quote
if you dont feel like listening to this than keep walking no prob....
it's just so funny to me that people feel the need to BAN something that may bennifit someone else just because they dont believe the same.....
It's not being BANNED. Do you think that every religious spiritual voice has an intrinsic right to express itself at a skydiving event? It's not a public forum, it's skydiving. Let's keep what we do related to skydiving.
The landscape surrounding every dropzone is LITTERED with churches. They have every right to do what they do. People know where to find jesus if they want him. He doesn't have to be brought anywhere.
Quoteman, LIVE AND LET LIVE.......
I wonder what the reaction would be if the nation of islam set up shop on a dropzone, "just in case we needed them".
apoil 0
Quote
An atheist is someone who "denies" the existance of God. Big difference.
Thanks,
Which is why it's still a term invented with the concept of God in mind.
Atheism is literally defined in terms of theism. So it is unacceptable.
Fortunately, I lived in another country for a while that actually practiced religious tolerance, instead of giving it lip service under a predominantly judeo-christian umbrella.
There you they'd accept you as a "free-thinker" and that would really be the end of it. Because religion is a private matter. Morality is public and if you get it from religion that's fine with me, but keep the religion part private.
billvon 2,400
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The tail of this thread has been moved to talkback if anyone's still interested.
sducoach 0
Merriam-Webster 1995
Here's the thing about believing in God. If you are wrong, you are still right because, you have lived your life doing and treating others in a loving manner, making their life, and yours better.
PM me some time, we'll get this off this line but, I'd love to discuss further.
Blues (and love)
J.E.
James 4:8
Sorry, hadda get it out of my system.
Just got a big old slice of pie in the sky. While I'm alive. VERY alive. VERY. Being an atheist CAN be lonely...days like today I wish there WAS a god...so I could thank him. I had to settle for parking in the sunset at 2300 feet in deep brakes for awhile and watching traces of cloudstuff chase the last of the sun off and let the stars out, finish a cigarette standing by the car watching shooting stars and satellites arc over the parking lot in the most crystal sky I've seen in a while. Someone tell me how the hell it can possibly get any better than this.
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