IAD's vs AFF for students

[gothsnake 0]

I was wondering why some DZ's have students do IAD's untill they can arch properly, perform good canapy control, etc before starting AFF and other DZ's start a student on AFF right away without the IAD's. There seems to be different ways of starting to teach students. Any thoughts on this ????

[Canuck278 0]

I was in the plane watching two 2nd time jumpers go out doing IAD's....we then carried on to 10 grand and did our thing....i later heard the JM telling one of the students that he would have to redo an IAD before moving on, that they wanted to see a better arch before he could attempt PFF...our version of AFF...having went through pff i am glad my arch was good before i started it...I didn't fail any levels and it was a far better learning and fun expierence.

Steve
Therapy is expensive, popping bubble wrap is cheap.

[skydiveacapulco 0]

there are several factors involved
the finances of the student.
the drop zones policies.
the training system being used.
and the dzo, s own oppinion.

there are good and bad points to every system, the trick is to identify them. then make a knowledgeble decision.

example aff costs approx $1800 for the complete course, thats a big pay out in one go, were as iad or instructor assisted deployment (i dont like this but just a personal oppinion) is paid by the jump. at say$40 per jump. now by the time you get your license you pay the same. aff is faster you learn the same skills statick line takes longer but you learn more about the canopy.

me i like aff as your done in a few days (but you sill need to learn canopy survival.

i like statick line as you learn canopy survival and are constantly made to practice your drills.

you pays your monie and takes your chances.
ps i only teach AFF know! its better see dzo oppinion.
i might be wrong but oppinions are like ah everybody has one.

blue sky sand and sun.

[Chrisky 0]

Wrote this to gothsnake original post two days ago:

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Could somebody please explain the sense of that to me?
If a student had to have a good arch for a AFF Level one (apart from proper ground instruction and examination on the ground), why are there TWO Instructors with him? I went straight to level one (no, not a tandem, no iads, no static line except military t-10), one of my JM signalled "arch more", so i did and it was alright. Took maybe 6 seconds.
I really second that "first ten seconds" idea, because having a dragging pilotchute in the back leaves only a few meters to try and arch. Honestly, i think it's a waste of money for the students imho.
Unless someone could explain the sense to me, of course?

@Skydiveacapulco: How does Static Line teach you canopy survival better? Make the same number of freefall jumps, and you're just as good under canopy, yet imho better in freefall.
I like AFF better, too

The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open.
From the edge you just see more.
... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ...

[The111 0]

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example aff costs approx $1800 for the complete course

Was only $1000 for me... where'd you go?

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[Remster 24]

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there are several factors involved

Actually, no. There is 1 factor involved in this case.

Its PFF, not AFF.

PFF is the Canadain training program and does not start with a 2/1 AFF jump, its starts with IADs, or now also Tandems in some DZs.

Remster

[nightjumps 1]

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@Skydiveacapulco: How does Static Line teach you canopy survival better? Make the same number of freefall jumps, and you're just as good under canopy, yet imho better in freefall.

You're both right and you state why, when you said, "...yet imho better in freefall."

Its about the main focus of the student. An AFF student's primary focus on the dive flow & the canopy is just a way to complete the dive. An IAD/SL student's primary focus is on canopy control.

[relyon 0]

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Its about the main focus of the student. An AFF student's primary focus on the dive flow & the canopy is just a way to complete the dive. An IAD/SL student's primary focus is on canopy control.

Regardless of the method, a student's main focus should be completing the skydive safely. Deploying and controlling the canopy clearly plays a critical primary role in achieving that. Everything else is secondary.

Bob

[nightjumps 1]

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Its about the main focus of the student. An AFF student's primary focus on the dive flow & the canopy is just a way to complete the dive. An IAD/SL student's primary focus is on canopy control.

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Regardless of the method, a student's main focus should be completing the skydive safely. Deploying and controlling the canopy clearly plays a critical primary role in achieving that. Everything else is secondary.

Oh, no doubt. I'm not going to disagree with you on that. My point is the cognitive focus of importance. Students will priortize things in their brain according to their own levels of quantity. While we Instructors emphasize exit, freefall, good canopy, EP's, canopy control and landing with equal emphasis and importance - its just natural for them to reduce it into bite size pieces of information and priority based on their perception of most important to least important. All important - yes.

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[riggerrob 558]

Nice point nightjumper, but students vary widely in their ability to absorb information and prioritize.
Some students have big enough brains to absorb and utilize all the information needed on an AFF first jump, while others are hopelessly overwhelmed by a simple tandem.
If you overwhelm a student with more information that they can absorb, they will develop their own system of prioritization, which may not vaguely resemble the instructor's system of prioritization.
For example, dozens of tandem students have told me - shortly after opening - "that was fun." Then I have to remind them that we still have to survive the next 4,000 feet of canopy ride.

While I have worked with all the different systems of first jump courses (military static-line, IAD, AFF and tandem), I still prefer the PFF method of introducing new information in small doses.

[nightjumps 1]

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students vary widely in their ability to absorb information and prioritize

We agree on all points, but this one demonstrates my earlier post of their individual cognitive processes. As Instructors, one of the greatest skills we can learn is not that of teaching, but that of observing. Students will give off Nonverbal ques and we need to be perceptive of those.

For me, I don't like teaching and jumping the same day (except tandems). I've found a greater comprehension and student retention in the sport by doing it in two 4 hour segments over two days. Plus, I can slow down the pace to make those observations necessary for when they "tune out" on certain learning points.

[tinfoil 0]

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PFF is the Canadain training program and does not start with a 2/1 AFF jump, its starts with IADs, or now also Tandems in some DZs.

It would depend on the DZ. At my DZ your first jump is a PFF jump.

“- - Sumo is the greatest of sports. It has power, grace, speed and cluture. And most importantly, two fat bastards smacking the shit out of each other. ”

[Remster 24]

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It would depend on the DZ. At my DZ your first jump is a PFF jump.

Then its AFF, not PFF.

Remster

[riggerrob 558]

Only two or three Canadian DZs have waivers to take first jump students freefall.
All the other Canadian DZs follow CSPA's line on PFF training.
Normal PFF training involves a couple of IAD or tandem jumps before they start freefall training.