Packing tandems

[GARYC24 3]

I have interest and desire to learn to pack tandems for schools. The main reason is basically just to be apart of skydiving, I used to have a SL Jumpmaster
rating and did ground control/radio for students..but that was along time ago,,and I don't want to do that anymore.
I can still buy my own jumps, but want to be more involved in sport.
Any suggestions how one can start getting into
packing at schools here?
I already have inquired at two places, one dz may be interested.
I have 550 skydives 43 yrs old and know that it's
not easy job..Hell..I should pay someone to get me started..

Gary Calhoun

[CrazyIvan 0]

Ask the packers at our DZ, they'll teach you how to flat pack the Tandems.

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[Malfunction 0]

This is tricky because packing is easy, but a lot of places want the packer to be a master rigger because the BSR (don't remember which one, CSSRIGGERS could answer that one) requires the packer to be under the direct supervision of a master rigger. Most MR's don't want to waste the time.

If you get into a small, local owned DZ, you may be better off.

Roll-packing tandems is the easiest and safest way. I can roll-pack a temdem (either ZP or F111) and it will be a soft, onheading opening.
Learn to roll pack, it is 10 times faster, too.

I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

[FallingAngel 0]

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but a lot of places want the packer to be a master rigger because the BSR (don't remember which one, CSSRIGGERS could answer that one) requires the packer to be under the direct supervision of a master rigger.

To the best of my knowledge, a senior rigger can supervise as well...

http://parachuteshop.com/parachute_rigger.htm#§65.125  %20Certificates:%20Privileges.

[Malfunction 0]

you are right. Sorry! I messed that up. Now my credibility looks bad. It is a senior rigger. Apologies.

I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

[AggieDave 6]

There's more then one way to pack a tandem, and each tandem system is quite different when it comes to closing the container and setting the drogue release.

So, the moral of the story is, go to a DZ you like and learn how to pack their system and the way they want tandems to be packed, and be happy there.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[FallingAngel 0]

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you are right. Sorry! I messed that up. Now my credibility looks bad. It is a senior rigger. Apologies.

You just got things confused, its no problem, I was just trying to help clarify.

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[riggerrob 558]

Roll-packing tandems is the easiest and safest way. I can roll-pack a tandem (either ZP or F111) and it will be a soft, on heading opening.
Learn to roll pack, it is 10 times faster, too.

[cpoxon 0]

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Hint, for the last decade, I have only PRO-packed tandem mains.

This would make a great poll for the new Tandem forum ;-)

Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

[ShortBus 0]

Roll packing!?
If it works it works im a packer at my dz and they made it mandatory to Pro-pack tandem canopies majority of what i pack is Strongs, occasionally a racer with the new icarus 400
As far as getting someone to teach you how to pack talk with the packers at your Dz and if theyre not busy as hell i dont see why they wouldnt want to help you out (unless they're greedy and dont want you takin their money )

He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man

[riggerrob 558]

Also try reading the packing manuals posted on websites of major manufacturers.

[Malfunction 0]

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Roll-packs always open one end cell a long time before the other, so you take the initial opening shock on one shoulder.

I take it you roll the sh!t out of the nose, don't you? Simple solution. FOLD (do not roll because the ROLL is so inconsistent) the left 4 cells twice, leave the center cell, FOLD the right 4 cells twice. A lines halfway to the B (keeping the folds clean), then the rest of the way. Piece of cake, and the openings will be onheading. The softness comes mostly from line stretch (at least from what I have seen in the videos shot of my tandem openings).

I have begun to pro-pack the SET 400 and SET 360s that our DZ has (I had a roll pack SET 400 go bad on me). So I have to contradict what I said earlier.

I think I would like to get TandemMasters feedback on roll pack vs pro pack vs traditional flat pack.

I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

[WayneRATS 0]

could you elaborate to me via pm what roll packing is?

cheers

------------------------
Can You Ere Me Now?

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

I have never experienced any "punch in one shoulder" due to flat packing or roll packing. For the record, I roll pack and have done so for over 20 years. I refuse to PRO pack a huge, ungainly tandem main for any number of reasons. Line-over possibility is one; much longer pack times is the second. Now Rob Warner is a much bigger guy than me, plus he has a lot more tandems than I do, so I respect what he does at his DZ. I would like to think that all of his smack openings were due to the inherently hard opening, no-longer used, non-flaring mains that we used to be stuck with. Such is not the case now; I have never been slammed by a Sigma nor an Icarus, whether roll packed or PRO. I have two packers who I allow to PRO pack tandems, but that's it. They work on the GK packing contract as well. I will allow it up until we have our first line-over.
In the end it's all about working out a safe system and them stringently sticking to it. There are some tandem factories out there with attrocious malfunction rates; they all PRO pack. Bill Booth put a good post on here about a year ago concerning this.

Chuck

[AggieDave 6]

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There are some tandem factories out there with attrocious malfunction rates; they all PRO pack

Yeah, we've had conversations about this before. In the past year and a half that Aggieland has been in business, I think we've done around 500 tandems (that's a guess), so we're by no means a "tandem factory" but we've had 0 lineovers. Infact the only tandem mal that we've had was from one of our packers getting sidetracked and rotating the d-bag through the lines before putting it in the container. Stepthrough, that locked the toggles down. That could be done no matter what kind of packing you do, since that happened after the canopy was in the d-bag and after all the line stows were done, just before the packer put the bag in the container.

We Pro-pack every single tandem. With our Sigma 370s and with our one EZ-384. The openings are absolutely awsome, also, we average literally about 1200ft per opening.

There's a trick we use to keep the lines in the center of the packjob, that's kinda hard to explain via text, but it does what is is supposed to do, it quickly puts the lines back into the center of the packjob. This was taught to me when I was first a packer at Aggieland packing tandems by the DZO, who has over 1000 tandems, is a TM course director (RWS) and a Rigger.


With that said, I still agree with Bill Booth, the numbers speak for themselves, there are DZs out there with incredibly high mal rates that Pro-pack. That little trick with the lines we do is what keeps us from being one of them.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Malfunction 0]

I don't know if anyone has informed you yet, but I will describe the roll pack to you.
On a Tandem, generally there is so much fabric that you can get away with a different type of pack. The roll pack starts out like a flat pack, but instead of the flat pack folds, first you control the nose (as I described in the post) by folding the right 4 cells in towards the center cell, then doing the same with the left 4, leaving the center cell open to the air. Take the set of A lines, fold them halfway to the B lines (it is such a short fold that it seems more like rolling the canopy rather than folding it), then completely to the B lines. Make sure that the lines are all together and the folds are crisp. Take the tail and fold the Brake lines to the C lines, then take the D lines and fold them to the C lines. Bring the slider up to the canopy, fold the slider in half and stow in between the stabilizer. Take the tail section of the canopy (now a stacked mess) and fold it once more between the B and C lines. Fold the nose on top of it. You know have your canopy ready to S fold into the bag.
Mind, this should only be done with Tandems. Our DZO does it to the Manta 240 that he has as student gear, but I have never done it to anything other than Tandems.

Basically, that is it. When packing Tandems, they are forgiving and open slowly anyway with the Anti-Slump bags they use. It is a fast and effective way to pack Tandems.

Hope that helps.

I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

[SkymonkeyONE 3]

Actually, I have roll packed every single student canopy I have ever packed in the past twenty two years without a single malfunction. Not a single one.

Chuck

[riggerrob 558]

I would like to think that all of his smack openings were due to the inherently hard opening, no-longer used, non-flaring mains that we used to be stuck with.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Correct.
All of my tandem reserve rides and most of my hard openings were on first-generation tandem mains: Strong 425, Strong 520, Pioneer High-Lifter and PD 360. All those canopies are made of F-111 fabric.
We still have a few Strong 425 canopies at Pitt Meadows, but they are gathering dust in the corner of the loft because NO ONE wants to jump them.

I have had a few hard openings with ZP tandem canopies, but most of them were with big students, or the packers got lazy about tightening bungees on deployment bags.

As for PRO-packing tandems, I take extra care with steering lines while pulling the tail around and laying the canopy on the floor. I like to reach around from the outside of the tail and pinch the steering lines into the center seam. This prevents steering lines from wandering.
Using this method and cruder methods we have averaged one malfunction per 1,000 jumps at Pitt Meadows. Our last malfunction was caused by a miss-routed bridle.