skydivejersey 0 #1 June 11, 2003 Ok. I would like to learn how to coach. I know at the moment I don't have the necessary numbers but I am planning to put that right. I know I have the attitude to do it. I really want to get into spreading the joy of what we do and first stage is coaching. Any pointers? Recomondations on courses? Practical areas to work on the most. Thanks - Alun. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenGriffiths 0 #2 June 11, 2003 From a Student's Point of view: What I want to see in a coach: -THEY CAN COACH - there's plenty of brilliant Skydivers out there. However there's a difference between being able to skydive and being able to tell others how to do it. -Be a damm good Skydiver. As a student I don't want to have to worry about you while - I'm worrying about a million and one problems. -Be able to spot the tiniest of errors which lead to mis-flying - but don't be nit-picky.---------- Ben G Still Sinking :-( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rigging65 0 #3 June 11, 2003 Get a copy of the SIM and IRM and start reading up on what you'll need to know for the Coach Course. Then practice the dive flows and ground preps. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 561 #4 June 11, 2003 Continue to improve your own skills by jumping with the best local jumpers. Note whose coaching style works well with you and which does not. Read everything you can about skydiving and watch video tapes until you wear them out. Plan on attending a coach certification course next year. There are several decent programs. The closest to you is the BPA's WARP Program. The root of most modern skydiving coaching programs was developed by the Canadian Sports Parachuting Association during the 1980s. Skydive University is headed by a Canadian named Rob Laidlaw. USPA recently asked Laidlaw to refine their coaching program. The Australian Parachute Federation's coaching programs follow CSPA guidelines, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #5 June 11, 2003 Not only that, but there are pre-reqs that have to be done before the Coaches Course. Get the IRM and the SIM, study them and do the pre-reqs.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #6 June 11, 2003 I also plan on becoming a coach - I haven't picked up a copy of the IRM yet but do have a SIM and my C license in-hand. in the meantime, I'm captain of our Rookie skydiving team, and we've been doing alot of 4-way stuff with some of the better/best jumpers at our DZ. Working our butts off, with specific goals set both as a team and individually. By the end of this season, the six of us (four and two alternates) should show some really dramatic skill improvements. (Most of us have already-) One of my goals is to become a coach, and to that end devote as much time and effort to improving my skills and helping what I can to improve the skills of my teammates. While I haven't got the resources to go spend tons of time in the tunnel, I do strive to get everything I can out of each jump, wether it's a hard-core training jump or a zoo load BFR, and to jump as often as my time/money/work and Mother Nature allows. We get as many jumps as we can on video, all of us get copies, and watch them at home or where ever. I'm also taking note (without being nosey-) of how different people give advice, guidance, etc. not only to us but to others. Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #7 June 12, 2003 Hi. The drop zone we run in Jersey operates to USPA rules so I am going for the USPA coach rating. I have already ordered SIM and the IR Manual. Just wondered if there are any particular courses I should consider attending? Where in the States are the best coaches to be found and how available are these people? I would have to come over from the UK so the time I have to spend there would be limited unfortunately. Skydive University sounds like a good plan (to get an idea of how others coach and improve my skills). Is this a feasable objective given to rigs and 3 or 4 weeks to make it happen? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dumpster 0 #8 June 12, 2003 I'll be buying my copy of the IRM soon (maybe next week-) and I'll take a look at the requirements - Around here it's usually a 2-day course, with check jumps, so I figure on livivng at the DZ the whole weekend. I'm not sure how Skydive U's course is run. If you look on the USPA website, it lists all the courses that are planned so far, where, when, etc. I'm not sure which one I'll be attending yet. Easy Does It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
John4455 0 #9 June 12, 2003 Spend time with them on the ground. Don't just rush them to the plane to make a jump. Give them their moneys worth. How do ya like it Johnny? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #10 June 12, 2003 One thing that you have to be able to do is:Fall straight down the tube. This is essential for a good coach. If you cannot be a target for your student to learn new skills then you are wasting your customers money. Contrary to popular belief, sitting still is one of the harder things to do in skydiving. I know some really good AFF instructors and big way bellyflyers that have trouble with this. Another issue that I see from Skydive U coach candidates, myself included, is the ability to judge distances in the air. If a drill dive calls for you to go back 6 to 10 feet...I can garauntee that you will go back at least 50 feet on your first try. When I did my evaluation dives for SDU...I thought that I was pretty close, but a good look at the video showed that I was way too far away. Judging distances is critical so a student can perform repetitions of the skill in the air that you have spent so much time on the ground teaching them. Plus, it is good for their psyche to pump out a bunch or reps and make it happen. If they only get to do one or two "forward to docks" because you were backsliding too far...then you are not doing them any favors. They arent practicing what you taught them. Learn how to debrief, the typical AFF debrief usually consists of all the bad things that happened on the jump. The thing is...for every one thing that can be improved on...there were 10 things that went really well or that improved from the previous jump. You also have to be SMART (Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Relevant, and Trackable) when it comes to setting goals and tasks for a customer. Take it bit by bit, skill by skill, and dont set yourself or your student up for failure. Meaning, dont give them something that you know they cant do. If you set yourself up for failure, it makes you look like a crappy coach, the student is disappointed and pissed that they spent money for it, and your program and tactics will be in question. Also, you need to be flexible in your teaching method. Everybody learns differently and everybody is at a different stage of learning. Some people are visual while others are more technical, etc. One student may be fresh off AFF and another student may have 700 jumps. You need to be able to change your teaching technique and what you are teaching without thinking about it. Some of that comes from experience, but you can read up on adult psychology or go to a SDU coach course which is way more involved in biomechanics and psychology than any USPA coach course that I have seen. Hence...this is why the USPA has asked Rob to revamp the coach course program. (Which I sat through the proposals and the proposed Coach Course Directors Course or whatever it is going to be called...and it is much improved over the current program). Anyways, back to psychology...sometimes you are going to have to direct your student to do everything, while others you may have to play a role as a facilitator...meaning, you are presenting them with the information and let them put the pieces together for themselves. I also find that muscle memory is vital to longterm learning and engraining performance without thought. Keep in mind that you are flying for two now. You cant be thinking about your flying skills because you need to be focussing on what the student is doing correctly or incorrectly from exit to landing and do it with a big grin on your face rooting them on. Which is another minor thing that gets overlooked that can have major reprocussions...your body language means a lot. We cant speak to give verbal encouragement in the air...therefore our expressions in freefall are the only positive or negative (hopefully positive) feedback that we can psychologically give our clients. Skill analysis (watching video) is big too and not easy at all...there is definately and artform to it. Practice, practice, practice. Anyways, enough of my blabbering...I think that am getting carpal tunnel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 561 #11 June 12, 2003 Skydive University expects you to arrive at their coach certification courses with a video tape in hand. That tape should include forur or five jumps demonstrating that you have mastered the pre-levels for coaching. Check SDU's website for the exact pre-levels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkySlut 0 #12 June 12, 2003 Not necessarily...if you do not have that tape of the pre-reqs...you can do eval jumps at the end of the day during the course. Rob usually likes to see something on video...4-way helps with overall skills (sideslides and turns in place anyways). The last 5 courses that I have seen Rob put on, he has made everyone do at least one eval jump, usually 2, maybe more depending on the skills of the candidate. Its usually the down and back/up and back one, which is part of the prereqs that are supposed to be done before attending the course. If you do not have any video he will usually want to see a dive showcasing all your RW skills. Turns in place, sideslides, etc. Rob is very adamant about airskills. Poor airskills will over-ride exceptional ground skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivejersey 0 #13 June 13, 2003 Thanks slut. Theres some really great advice there. My plan (evolving!) was to go to a Skydive University for 3 weeks to ensure that I have sufficient air skills (and the means to prove them) before taking the Coach course. Who is Rob btw? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #14 June 13, 2003 Quote-Be a damm good Skydiver. As a student I don't want to have to worry about you while - I'm worrying about a million and one problems. I'm currently applying for my coach rating, and I'm not a great skydiver. A coach is not an AFF instructor. They are not there to save the student's life. The student - even at 10 jumps - has passed AFF. They have proven that they know how to save their own life. The coach can save his/her own life and not kill the student in the process. The coach-student relationship, IMO is more of a peer-peer relationship. The coach has specific lessons to teach the student. The coach must understand how to verbalize what is required, how to demonstrate on the ground, and of course how to do it in the air. For new students, this is primarily about falling straight down on your belly, so they can see how their actions are relative to another jumper. But for new students, it is also about verbalizing safety that is not taught in AFF - things like don't tail-load the aircraft, understanding exit separation, and my personal favorite - the fine points of canopy control! I have had people with hundreds or even thousands of belly jumps ask me to coach them in how to sit-fly. The "coach" is nothing more than a formality of what used to be an informal process - skydivers teaching things to each other. You don't need to be a skygod to be a coach - there is a reason that USPA only requires 100 jumps. Someone with 100 jumps can teach a student about how to be safe. Someone with 100 freefly jumps can teach free-flying to someone with thousands of belly jumps.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivejersey 0 #15 June 13, 2003 I am of the same opinion - its not about being a brilliant skydiver but it is about being supportive, encouraging and being able to see where the errors are. I would principally like to coach people that have just come off their AFF course and are looking to get into the basics of RW. This is where the demand is at our DZ as we are a new club and so we don't have a lot of members on high jump numbers but a small core of novices wanting to learn more. It also seems to me that this is the time when coaching is most important as this is when you are most likely to pick up bad habits. Without a point of reference its hard to know that your doing it. (this happened to me and it was only when I started jumping with others and had videos done that I realised my position was slightly wrong). I would have greatly appreciated some coaching at that stage and it didn't need to come from a world champion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkySlut 0 #16 June 13, 2003 QuoteA coach is not an AFF instructor. This statement is most certainly correct. Its correct that you arent responsible for saving a life and that reaction times have to be really quick, but I would also say that the stuff that AFF instructors teach is easy compared to what a good coach can teach. AFF is basic biomechanics. It is survival school for students. AFF teaches enough so that they can self jumpmaster. A good coach is skilled in advanced biomechanics and skill analysis. It is very common to get a customer that has engrained many bad habits over the course of however many jumps, reversing the improper techniques can be very time consuming and complicated. Conveying the new muscle memory effectively is key (as in my previous post). As an AFF instructor, the easiest student to teach is someone that has never jumped before. You can teach them the proper skills right from the start, but the toughest to teach are people that have learned bad habits. Its easier to create something new than to tear it down and build it back up again by doing the basics. Coaching, IMHO, is way more involved and complicated than teaching an AFF student. For example...have you ever noticed the difference between a whuffo and a post AFF jumper in the tunnel??? If you have been to the tunnel and seen whuffos fly...you already know the answer, but if you havent been to the tunnel go check it out when you get a chance...the whuffo usually has better body position & is more relaxed and stable than the novice jumper. Kinda strange, but true. The reasons for that are numerous. Rob Laidlaw is the president and founder of SDU. He came up with the Canadian coaching program and is working with the USPA on their current program to improve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sducoach 0 #17 June 13, 2003 Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SkySlut 0 #18 June 13, 2003 Good point... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #19 October 20, 2003 Just attended Skydive Airtight's Coach Course. I learned a lot! It was hard (as it should be) but not impossible. The instructors made the eval dives less stressful by being in character. My student (Pete with 7,000 jumps) was Philip D Hiciks ESQ from near Buggtussel, Oklahoma! What a hoot. I laughed so much I was very relaxed. Unlike I was when I went through "gig row" having to find all the gigs on a rig. A reminder. There are PRE WORK things you must do BEFORE a USPA coach course, like teach 2 of the BASIC portions of a first jump to real whuffos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #20 October 22, 2003 Quote IMO is more of a peer-peer relationship. The coach has specific lessons to teach the student. The coach must understand how to verbalize what is required, how to demonstrate on the ground, and of course how to do it in the air. For new students, this is primarily about falling straight down on your belly, so they can see how their actions are relative to another jumper. ... The "coach" is nothing more than a formality of what used to be an informal process - skydivers teaching things to each other. You don't need to be a skygod to be a coach - there is a reason that USPA only requires 100 jumps. In the USPA Coach Course you must be able to teach ALL the non-specific (those that are not AFF) classes of the first jump course. It includes safety, canopy control, etc. You must also be able to teach Cat G & H which include diving to a formation, docking, fall rate adjustment and more canopy control. You can learn more about this in an IRM (Instructional Rating Manual) purchased from the USPA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivejersey 0 #21 October 24, 2003 Coach course was fun... just took a little time to get my head around the signals in freefall... legs.. no arms... thats the one!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #22 October 24, 2003 QuoteUnlike I was when I went through "gig row" having to find all the gigs on a rig. Yeah... but I'll bet you do "Gear Checks" a lot differently AFTER the Coach course, than you did before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #23 October 24, 2003 QuoteQuoteUnlike I was when I went through "gig row" having to find all the gigs on a rig. Yeah... but I'll bet you do "Gear Checks" a lot differently AFTER the Coach course, than you did before. Yeah, Keith, I do. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
riggerrob 561 #11 June 12, 2003 Skydive University expects you to arrive at their coach certification courses with a video tape in hand. That tape should include forur or five jumps demonstrating that you have mastered the pre-levels for coaching. Check SDU's website for the exact pre-levels. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #12 June 12, 2003 Not necessarily...if you do not have that tape of the pre-reqs...you can do eval jumps at the end of the day during the course. Rob usually likes to see something on video...4-way helps with overall skills (sideslides and turns in place anyways). The last 5 courses that I have seen Rob put on, he has made everyone do at least one eval jump, usually 2, maybe more depending on the skills of the candidate. Its usually the down and back/up and back one, which is part of the prereqs that are supposed to be done before attending the course. If you do not have any video he will usually want to see a dive showcasing all your RW skills. Turns in place, sideslides, etc. Rob is very adamant about airskills. Poor airskills will over-ride exceptional ground skills. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #13 June 13, 2003 Thanks slut. Theres some really great advice there. My plan (evolving!) was to go to a Skydive University for 3 weeks to ensure that I have sufficient air skills (and the means to prove them) before taking the Coach course. Who is Rob btw? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #14 June 13, 2003 Quote-Be a damm good Skydiver. As a student I don't want to have to worry about you while - I'm worrying about a million and one problems. I'm currently applying for my coach rating, and I'm not a great skydiver. A coach is not an AFF instructor. They are not there to save the student's life. The student - even at 10 jumps - has passed AFF. They have proven that they know how to save their own life. The coach can save his/her own life and not kill the student in the process. The coach-student relationship, IMO is more of a peer-peer relationship. The coach has specific lessons to teach the student. The coach must understand how to verbalize what is required, how to demonstrate on the ground, and of course how to do it in the air. For new students, this is primarily about falling straight down on your belly, so they can see how their actions are relative to another jumper. But for new students, it is also about verbalizing safety that is not taught in AFF - things like don't tail-load the aircraft, understanding exit separation, and my personal favorite - the fine points of canopy control! I have had people with hundreds or even thousands of belly jumps ask me to coach them in how to sit-fly. The "coach" is nothing more than a formality of what used to be an informal process - skydivers teaching things to each other. You don't need to be a skygod to be a coach - there is a reason that USPA only requires 100 jumps. Someone with 100 jumps can teach a student about how to be safe. Someone with 100 freefly jumps can teach free-flying to someone with thousands of belly jumps.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #15 June 13, 2003 I am of the same opinion - its not about being a brilliant skydiver but it is about being supportive, encouraging and being able to see where the errors are. I would principally like to coach people that have just come off their AFF course and are looking to get into the basics of RW. This is where the demand is at our DZ as we are a new club and so we don't have a lot of members on high jump numbers but a small core of novices wanting to learn more. It also seems to me that this is the time when coaching is most important as this is when you are most likely to pick up bad habits. Without a point of reference its hard to know that your doing it. (this happened to me and it was only when I started jumping with others and had videos done that I realised my position was slightly wrong). I would have greatly appreciated some coaching at that stage and it didn't need to come from a world champion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #16 June 13, 2003 QuoteA coach is not an AFF instructor. This statement is most certainly correct. Its correct that you arent responsible for saving a life and that reaction times have to be really quick, but I would also say that the stuff that AFF instructors teach is easy compared to what a good coach can teach. AFF is basic biomechanics. It is survival school for students. AFF teaches enough so that they can self jumpmaster. A good coach is skilled in advanced biomechanics and skill analysis. It is very common to get a customer that has engrained many bad habits over the course of however many jumps, reversing the improper techniques can be very time consuming and complicated. Conveying the new muscle memory effectively is key (as in my previous post). As an AFF instructor, the easiest student to teach is someone that has never jumped before. You can teach them the proper skills right from the start, but the toughest to teach are people that have learned bad habits. Its easier to create something new than to tear it down and build it back up again by doing the basics. Coaching, IMHO, is way more involved and complicated than teaching an AFF student. For example...have you ever noticed the difference between a whuffo and a post AFF jumper in the tunnel??? If you have been to the tunnel and seen whuffos fly...you already know the answer, but if you havent been to the tunnel go check it out when you get a chance...the whuffo usually has better body position & is more relaxed and stable than the novice jumper. Kinda strange, but true. The reasons for that are numerous. Rob Laidlaw is the president and founder of SDU. He came up with the Canadian coaching program and is working with the USPA on their current program to improve it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sducoach 0 #17 June 13, 2003 Blues, J.E.James 4:8 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkySlut 0 #18 June 13, 2003 Good point... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #19 October 20, 2003 Just attended Skydive Airtight's Coach Course. I learned a lot! It was hard (as it should be) but not impossible. The instructors made the eval dives less stressful by being in character. My student (Pete with 7,000 jumps) was Philip D Hiciks ESQ from near Buggtussel, Oklahoma! What a hoot. I laughed so much I was very relaxed. Unlike I was when I went through "gig row" having to find all the gigs on a rig. A reminder. There are PRE WORK things you must do BEFORE a USPA coach course, like teach 2 of the BASIC portions of a first jump to real whuffos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #20 October 22, 2003 Quote IMO is more of a peer-peer relationship. The coach has specific lessons to teach the student. The coach must understand how to verbalize what is required, how to demonstrate on the ground, and of course how to do it in the air. For new students, this is primarily about falling straight down on your belly, so they can see how their actions are relative to another jumper. ... The "coach" is nothing more than a formality of what used to be an informal process - skydivers teaching things to each other. You don't need to be a skygod to be a coach - there is a reason that USPA only requires 100 jumps. In the USPA Coach Course you must be able to teach ALL the non-specific (those that are not AFF) classes of the first jump course. It includes safety, canopy control, etc. You must also be able to teach Cat G & H which include diving to a formation, docking, fall rate adjustment and more canopy control. You can learn more about this in an IRM (Instructional Rating Manual) purchased from the USPA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydivejersey 0 #21 October 24, 2003 Coach course was fun... just took a little time to get my head around the signals in freefall... legs.. no arms... thats the one!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nightjumps 1 #22 October 24, 2003 QuoteUnlike I was when I went through "gig row" having to find all the gigs on a rig. Yeah... but I'll bet you do "Gear Checks" a lot differently AFTER the Coach course, than you did before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StevePhelps 0 #23 October 24, 2003 QuoteQuoteUnlike I was when I went through "gig row" having to find all the gigs on a rig. Yeah... but I'll bet you do "Gear Checks" a lot differently AFTER the Coach course, than you did before. Yeah, Keith, I do. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
StevePhelps 0 #19 October 20, 2003 Just attended Skydive Airtight's Coach Course. I learned a lot! It was hard (as it should be) but not impossible. The instructors made the eval dives less stressful by being in character. My student (Pete with 7,000 jumps) was Philip D Hiciks ESQ from near Buggtussel, Oklahoma! What a hoot. I laughed so much I was very relaxed. Unlike I was when I went through "gig row" having to find all the gigs on a rig. A reminder. There are PRE WORK things you must do BEFORE a USPA coach course, like teach 2 of the BASIC portions of a first jump to real whuffos. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #20 October 22, 2003 Quote IMO is more of a peer-peer relationship. The coach has specific lessons to teach the student. The coach must understand how to verbalize what is required, how to demonstrate on the ground, and of course how to do it in the air. For new students, this is primarily about falling straight down on your belly, so they can see how their actions are relative to another jumper. ... The "coach" is nothing more than a formality of what used to be an informal process - skydivers teaching things to each other. You don't need to be a skygod to be a coach - there is a reason that USPA only requires 100 jumps. In the USPA Coach Course you must be able to teach ALL the non-specific (those that are not AFF) classes of the first jump course. It includes safety, canopy control, etc. You must also be able to teach Cat G & H which include diving to a formation, docking, fall rate adjustment and more canopy control. You can learn more about this in an IRM (Instructional Rating Manual) purchased from the USPA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydivejersey 0 #21 October 24, 2003 Coach course was fun... just took a little time to get my head around the signals in freefall... legs.. no arms... thats the one!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #22 October 24, 2003 QuoteUnlike I was when I went through "gig row" having to find all the gigs on a rig. Yeah... but I'll bet you do "Gear Checks" a lot differently AFTER the Coach course, than you did before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevePhelps 0 #23 October 24, 2003 QuoteQuoteUnlike I was when I went through "gig row" having to find all the gigs on a rig. Yeah... but I'll bet you do "Gear Checks" a lot differently AFTER the Coach course, than you did before. Yeah, Keith, I do. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
