Reserve extraction/inflation should it have worked?

[ChileRelleno 0]

Crossposted without poll from "General Skydiving Discussions"


OK, heres the deal.
The other day I got stupid and went low. I pulled at 1500' was open at 800', right as my main was completing deployment my Cypres fired and I was left with a RPC, bridle and Catapult RPC(secondary RPC) in tow. The reserve D-bag was not extracted, the reserve canopy did not deploy. The reserve D-bag was held in place by closed corners(pockets) formed by the reserve side flaps and material coming up from the main side flaps.
My forward speed under canopy was pretty good, full flight with a 10-15mph tailwind.
Witness stated that RPC's and bridle were at full extension but not alot of drag(like a kite tail).
Harness/container - Reflex
Main canopy - Hornet 210 @ 1.19.1
Reserve canopy - Tempo 210 @ 1.19.1
AAD - CYPRES expert

The main point of concern is that a canopy transfer has always been one of my emergency gameplans, for instance, in the event of a flying yet unlandable damaged main canopy ect...
My question far all of you out there (particularly you riggers and gear manufacturers) is should the reserve have deployed? Yes? No? and your reasons why.
I'm looking for all the input and information I can get on this incident.

ChileRelleno-Rodriguez Bro#414
Hellfish#511,MuffBro#3532,AnvilBro#9, D24868

[eWave 0]

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My forward speed under canopy was pretty good, full flight with a 10-15mph tailwind.

Can't say anything else, but that tailwind doesn't matter. Canopy / Pilot Chute doesn't know where the wind blows cause you're "inside" of it. So your airspeed is same, if you're going towards wind or have tailwind.

[billvon 2,400]

>should the reserve have deployed? Yes? No? and your reasons why.

Usually no. During canopy flight, especially under a low to moderately loaded main parachute, there is often insufficient airflow to let the reserve PC pull out the reserve freebag. Reserves are often packed a bit tighter than mains are, and the flap system closing the reserve is typically more elaborate. This has some advantages, namely that if you deploy your reserve on your back the freebag does not come out until the reserve PC gets to the end of the bridle and really starts pulling. It also has the advantage that the reserve will often not deploy once the main is out; this can help prevent having to deal with a 2-out scenario.

In reality, this happens often on student rigs - student rigs have very large mains, and often do not generate enough speed to get the freebag extracted. We saw this with some regularity back when we were using FXC's; the AAD would fire around 2000 feet (they were set to 1500) and the reserve PC would come out and not deploy. We did have several malfunctions and one or two "honest" AAD firings on the same rigs and never had a problem with the reserve deploying when it's supposed to.

Note that some rigs used to use something called a "hesitator loop" - a bight of bridle through a loop that essentially held the freebag in until the bridle was fully extended. Nowadays that function is provided (if at all) by the friction of the bag and the tightness of the bag's fit in the reserve container. From the old Reflex home page:

"The Reflex II reserve container design is Velcro and hesitator loop free. Its friction staged system ensures optimum deployment performance."

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Do you mind if I ask why you lost altitude awareness? Just so I can watch out so I don't fall into the same problem.

-I'm a lil' terrified of losing altitude awareness...I have a ProTrack on my left ear, I just bought an older Dytter for the right, I wear an altimeter on my left hand, and I now have one for my chest strap...overkill? Maybe. Read my dream in the 'Dreams?' thread in the Women's froum and you'll see why...sorry, I don't know how to make a clicky to an old thread...

I'm still jumping but the dream kinda haunts me.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[billvon 2,400]

>-I'm a lil' terrified of losing altitude awareness...I have a ProTrack on
> my left ear, I just bought an older Dytter for the right, I wear an
> altimeter on my left hand, and I now have one for my chest
> strap...overkill? Maybe.

If you are truly worried about going low, I'd suggest looking down every once in a while. All those altimeters can break, but eyes have proven pretty reliable.

[ACMESkydiver 0]

Um-hmm, that's what my instructors have always said; first point of altitude awareness is your eyes watching the ground...I have a very hard time eyeballing distance though. I'm watching my altimeter every time we go up to try to see how things look at every 1,000 feet...but I'm still having a hard time. It's bad I know, but 6,000 looks the same as 2 or 3 to me... I'm trying to get some sense of "trees are about this big at this altitude...the barns are about this big....the 'X' is about this big..." but I'm still struggling with it. Could be the reason behind my nightmare in the first place; I've never felt entirely comfortable with altitude awareness. I've done solo jumps for the sole purpose of getting better at altitude awareness, but I'm just not quite there yet.

Sorry if I hijacked yer thread Chile !!

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[PhreeZone 15]

Chile did'nt lose Altitude awareness... they intentionally pulled that low.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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Chile did'nt lose Altitude awareness... they intentionally pulled that low.

Oh... naughty, naughty...and good thing I wasn't on the ground watching, I would have burst out in tears. I'm kinda sensitive; hide my eyes when they swoop even ...and they're all forbidden to even talk about their BASE jumps around me. I get too a-scared...

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.