UK WIND TUNNEL!

[Adriandavies 0]

...so which one will be best...?

Brand new site using proven technology, big catchment area for leisure business, good profile amongst the skydiving community, but costing £3m and as yet has no confimed building date. Or a much older site which although already built needs adapting, but which doesn't require big money investment. Will it come down to cost or long term viability?

[mr2mk1g 10]

well all else being equal, the bedford tunnel is bigger and faster.

We don't know yet what other elements are going to be equal though.

This really is a wait and see thing. I just hope that the two don't drive each other under and we end up with none! I worry that there is not enough demand in the uk to keep two tunnels making bags of money.

[xavenger 0]

It's very difficult to say isn't it - although I am gambling that Skyventure at Milton Keynes has the edge. Why? Not just because of its location which is a great bonus but mainly because it's a fairly "proven formula". The fact the Bedford bunch are modifying an existing facility would concern me (if I had a reason to be concerned) .. it's an unknown quantity.

Renovation and maintenance costs could very quickly mount, whereas the Skyventure project irrespective of the capital required to get it going is proven elsewhere - the costs are known.

Would be interesting to know how much money is required at Bedford. Long term what will matter is who can attract the most custom, with the least cash and who can operate most efficiently.

[arlo 0]

Quote

I have no idea which will ultimately be the most successful tunnel of the two - but I am guessing that the Skyventure tunnel at Xscape will pick up a tremendous amount of "off the street" traffic which is exactly what is required to make the thing run at a profit. Last time I was at Skyventure Florida - I was told that something like 70-80% of their revenue came from off the street.

that is a bogus number. maybe you confused it with approximately 70% of our business comes from skydivers. big difference.

also, skyventure would still make a profit if it was strictly skydivers. tourists definitely help increase the profit margin, but i don't think we'd be losing money if it was 100% skydivers - we just wouldn't be making as much.

just wanting to set that record straight before people get the wrong information.

arlo

[xavenger 0]

Arlo - you go for it - set the record straight please - I don't work for Skyventure!

I only know what I have been told - although I have spoken to 2 or 3 people at Skyventure in the past and they have all said that "off the street" traffic accounts for the volumes of traffic I indicated.

Don't know where the discrepancy is from but eitherway, if you say it would still be profitable even without the tourists - that's great news. I can believe that .. the Florida tunnel seems to be pretty darn well booked up for the coming months.

[mr2mk1g 10]

Would you still expect to make money off skydivers alone if there were only 5600 paid up skydivers in the country total? (approximate UK figures as per AGM at the weekend)

Factoring in the fact that only a small proportion of the membership are going to want tunnel time and that there is a good chance of a competing tunnel within 100 miles, I think that both UK tunnels are going to have to heavily market their product to whuffos just to survive.

On the upside, I think thats no bad thing. It may well introduce hundreds of people to our sport and could conceivably inject a new lease of life into British skydiving... but thats the optimist speaking.

[skyjuggler 0]

I think the tunnel or tunnels are going to be very successful here in the UK.

As for how many jumpers there are in the UK, I don't think that is too important. I am English but have been to the tunnel in Orlando a few times. Other teams travel around the world just to train in it. I believe 4-way teams see it as an essential tool for training. Europeans at the moment have to make a move to the states or Paris to get in the tunnel, and from reports, I hear that the Paris tunnel is not as organised as Skyventure and offers different conditions.

Also, I am English but I do not jump in the UK very much. Yes I am a fair weather jumper, and jump in Spain or the US instead. There are others alot like me. The weather sucks here for jumping year round, but I believe the UK tunnel with recirculate the air so can operate when it is raining. Indeed the cooler air will help aswell, as my tunnel time was at 11pm - 2am so we could fly in the faster, cooler air.

Another big positive in my eyes is that people will be able to hold down normal jobs and skydive their arses off. I gave my job up to skydive, but having a tunnel in the UK would mean I could fly as much as I could afford and then do the real thing in my holiday time. To jump alot IMHO you have to live close to a busy DZ, work in the sport or have a job that gives you lots of time off to spend the hard earned cash!

I have also heard some people saying that the tunnel will be bad for the UK DZ's. I think the opposite. I think it will allow more people to experience freefall in some description, allow experienced jumpers to train and get better so pushing the sport's level, and so lead to busier DZ's around the country when the weather is good!
Look at Perris, they have one in their car park, and it is attracting loads of business.

I also think it is worth pointing out that the tunnel is not skydiving. I still enjoy jumping out of a plane, and of course you can not track or work in angles in the tunnel. But I love it for what it is, a vertical column which helps my skills no end.
As for the competing tunnels, point taken. When there is one all is good for that tunnel. Monopoly helps! But competition is good for us the customer. It will keep them both on their toes and hopefully get us better value for money and make them work as efficiently as possible.
What I would like is the security of a normal job, but with time to jump, jump, jump and train in the tunnel! At least I can have a job and train in the tunnel if they open tunnels here in the UK. I bet there are others like me too.

Just my 2 cents.

[xavenger 0]

I agree with pretty much everything you have said.

It's interesting, I get the impression some DZs feel the wind tunnel is a "threat" to their business in some way. I think a wind tunnel is going to be a boom to the skydiving industry - its a great place to recruit new skydiving students.

Also, I haven't spoken to a single existing skydiver who has been to any tunnel anywhere - who has said that doing so or by having access to it - it has reduced the amount they "jump".

In fact most people who go to the tunnel want to get their knees in the breeze pretty quickly and try out their skills in freefall, it helps people develop more confidence, it makes people want to jump.

A word on the Paris Tunnel as you mentioned it: It's pretty good .. quite a different experience to Skyventure which has solid plexiglass walls that you can fly right up to.

The Paris tunnel is in this really bizarre building. You feel like you're in some nuclear facility. Anyway, the "tunnel" itself is surrounded by a net. On the outside of the net are the people waiting to go in after you. You step through the net to get in and out the tunnel. It "looks" a lot bigger than skyventure but I think the useable space is similar, if you fly too close to the net you loose air and - hmm - well the results can be quite embarrassing (plummet head first like a rock I recall).

It's still good though, worth a visit. The downsides are 1/ it's way expensive in comparison to Skyventure Florida - even more so with the wicked US exchange rate - and 2/ it only appears to open in the afternoons .. oh and 3/ it's in a terrible place - - a grey dirty industrial area - no where near the centre of Paris.

[gremlin 0]

One interesting spin off is going to be the effect on competitions of having a wind tunnel in the UK. Currently only the top few teams go off and do tunnel time but even some of those in the intermediate cat have clocked up 24 odd hours in there. While this is excellent for the standard of competition it does serve to separate those who can afford to from those who jump for fun, and the junior category is designed to encourage people with low jump numbers to feel they can acheive something and acheive a respectable place by separating out the skygods. We could soon end up with tunnel gods (low jump numbers but hours in the tunnel) competing in junior comps.

What is the solution? Poss to adopt the US system where you are not allowed to enter a category that 2 of the team have previously won a medal in (except senior of course ) This might also stop the non logging of jumps which does occur.

Does anyone else have possible solutions?

I'm drunk, you're drunk, lets go back to mine....