speedy 0 #1 April 13, 2004 It was the 1st jump of the day. It was also the 1st jump with our replacement for our now pregnant team captain. A simple jump to check out level with a fair bit of no contact flying. We also had two video guys, one doing just stills and the other doing just video. The jump went O.K.with break off at 4500 ft. I tracked and dumped at 3000 ft, looked up and ,uh oh, that's a line twist. I thought no problem, I've had them before and they tend to untwist themselves. I started to kick them out and noticed that I was now turning relative to the canopy. I checked the lines again and noticed, uh oh, that's now 4 twists and is getting worse. I'll admit, no check on my alti, but I knew I was at about 2300 ft. I decided to chop and went for the handles, at the same time the canopy went into a spiral dive and I was falling back to earth. I use the two handed method for EP's, that is left hand on the D-ring, right hand on the cutaway pad. I tried to peel the cutaway pad from the Velcro and it stayed stuck, a second attempt the peel the pad away and still it would not budge. I looked down at the pad through a fogged and scratched visor (full face helmet) and could see the blurred red handle with my white gloved hand around it. I released my grip slightly, adjusted my hand grip and then put an extra effort to peel it away. This time it came loose. Altitude? I had not heard my hard deck warning on my pro-track yet. I was going to die if I landed in this configuration, pulling the reserve without cutaway would probably be fatal as well. I yanked the cutaway pad and arched. The main had gone and I was still on my back and my pro-track started the hard deck scream. I thought, fuck this, arching is not going to get me belly to earth anytime soon and pulled silver. In an instant all the spinning and speed stopped and I was under a nice reserve. But, man, did my back hurt. Altitude after deployment was 1500 feet. A couple of things I thought about afterwards. 1. I ordered a new visor for my helmet. Not being able to see your handles properly under a spinning mal is unnerving. 2. Why did I have problems with the cutaway pad? I believe this was a combination of things. I was wearing gloves that have a sort of sticky surface on the palms. Due to the spin my harness was probably a bit out of shape, so I grabbed not only the cutaway pad but also part of the MLW, the gloves keeping my hand stuck to the MLW. The rig is almost new, so the Velcro does not peel away easily anyway. One more thing to add. Some witnesses on the ground said that I had fired my free bag into the main. That is to say cutaway and reserve pull at the same time. Someone even asked me if I had a RSL. They said that my free bag stayed entangled in the main for some time. I was convinced I had left time between cutaway and silver. So what really happened? Would you believe it, the video guy filmed the whole event! On the video you could clearly see the cutaway and then the free bag deployed away from the main. Also on the video you could see the deployment was more horizontal than vertical. The people on the ground just had a bad angle to judge. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xavenger 0 #2 April 13, 2004 Glad it all went ok for you speedy :-) I "nearly" had to cutaway yesterday for similar reasons - and coincidentally also had problems with my visor on my full face. Not nearly as interesting as your story but ... Pulled at 3k .. visor immediately fogged up completely .. totally .. could see hardly anything. Could feel I was rotating .. reached up to feel the risers and immediately knew I had line twists. Struggled like hell to get my visor open, considered taking helmet off and dumping it - got it open on last attempt - breaking my thumbnail clean off in the process. I started turning in the direction of the twists for a few seconds .. looked at Alti .. was at 2k .. thought .. 5 more seconds and if I cannot get out of this .. gonna ditch it. 4 seconds later .. came out the line twists ... Lessons learned: Should practice opening my visor under canopy more .. should get some anti-fog stuff on it .. should consider going back to open face ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #3 April 13, 2004 Quoteshould consider going back to open face ;-) Yeah, I know what you mean, I only jump my full face in team 4-way jumps. Ripping goggles off is far cheaper than dumping your helmet I was glad I decided to ditch quickly. With the time spent trying to get the cutaway pad peeled, if I had decided to ditch later, it may have been too late A spiralling Velocity loaded at 1.9 looses height very quickly Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #4 April 13, 2004 Curious - I've yet to see someone fire their reserve while back to earth - can you post the video anytime soon?_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #5 April 13, 2004 Quotethe deployment was more horizontal than vertical. This means you were effectively opening in a stand up, which is just what happens you cutaway and open immediately from a non-spinning malfunction.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billbooth 10 #6 April 13, 2004 Just think what might have happened if this jumper had a "soft" reserve handle. With a fogged visor he could not see his reserve handle. With gloves on he probably could not feel it. Is it reasonable to assume that someone spinning rapidly on their back (possibly in a "panic" situation) will be able to quickly pull a reserve handle that he can neither feel nor see? Are you still sure you don't want an RSL? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #7 April 13, 2004 I could post the video, however, the video man was a long way from me and it is not easy to see what position I am in. I have heard the rumour that 80% of reserves a pulled while people are back to earth. Not the best position, but better than pulling too late. As I said, I had a lot of horizontal speed after cutting away. You can see how the free bag tends to be pulled out sideways on the video. I#ll try and post it later today. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #8 April 13, 2004 QuoteJust think what might have happened if this jumper had a "soft" reserve handle Not for me, I like the good old D-ring QuoteAre you still sure you don't want an RSL? Yes, I am sure. I do a lot of camera work. I want to be sure the main has cleared properly before my reserve comes out. A cutaway handle instead of a pillow is an interesting alternative though. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #9 April 13, 2004 QuoteThis means you were effectively opening in a stand up, No, that is not what happened. I had a lot of horizontal speed (ground speed). I was flung away from the main sideways not downwards. I was very different to a non-spinning mal. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,471 #10 April 13, 2004 >I want to be sure the main has cleared properly before my reserve comes out. Well, but in this case the lack of an RSL might have been a problem, and you had an entanglement even without one! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,410 #11 April 13, 2004 QuoteQuoteThis means you were effectively opening in a stand up, No, that is not what happened. I had a lot of horizontal speed (ground speed). I was flung away from the main sideways not downwards. I was very different to a non-spinning mal. You are missing his point; It is irrelevant where the *earth* is when you deploy. What matters is where the *relative* *wind* is. When you chop a canopy that is in a hard spin, you are in a stand up position *relative* to the *wind*. This is a good position for deployment, since the pilot chute will promptly be swept off off your back and up behind your head."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chaoskitty 0 #12 April 13, 2004 I had a similar experience with a malfunction. I couldnt get the cutaway handle pulled while in line twists. Turned out I also had a lineover.. but here is a short description of my experience. Theres no way to tell for sure, but it seems likely that since I dont have hard housings for my cutaway cables on my risers, the cables could have had some pressure applied by the line twists. There are some other ideas discussed in that thread too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrogNog 1 #13 April 13, 2004 Quote ... so I grabbed not only the cutaway pad but also part of the MLW, the gloves keeping my hand stuck to the MLW. It was time to pop my reserve for a repack and one of my riggers was kind enough to grab me by my yoke and spin me around the packing room to simulate a gently spinning mal so I could simulate my EPs in a different situation than just standing up or hanging in a harness. I had this same problem with my reserve handle - I chopped OK but my left hand was grabbing the reserve handle and my chest strap, and I couldn't budge the handle! Since I was looking at the handle, I saw I was grabbing the strap and I repositioned my hand and pulled the reserve no problem. It taught me the importance of looking, and being able to see. I normally jump with ski goggles (they're warm in the Winter and go over my glasses) that let me only barely see my handles; I'm moving to much more visible prescription goggles shortly. -=-=-=-=- Pull. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #14 April 14, 2004 QuoteYou are missing his point; It is irrelevant where the *earth* is when you deploy. What matters is where the *relative* *wind* is. Yes, I was missing your point I understand what you mean now and you are right Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #15 April 14, 2004 QuoteWell, but in this case the lack of an RSL might have been a problem, and you had an entanglement even without one! That was what they thought on the ground. The video shows the main was well away before the reserve came out. There are pro's and con's to a RSL. That can be discussed elsewhere, my decision is not to use one. This cutaway gave me no reason to review that decision. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #16 April 14, 2004 Quotecan you post the video anytime soon? I tried to upload it to skydivingmovies.com but it did not work. Problems with my companies firewall I think. I could mail it to you if you want but as I said you can not see what position I am in It's 3.2 megs big and only 9 seconds long (mpg-2 format). Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #17 April 14, 2004 If you want to see a video of the cutaway (but from a distance) you can see it at My Reserve. Watch for the small yellow velocity 90 spiralling across the frame Also you can see I did not dump my reserve/free bag into the main Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
