RSL or no?

[Avion 0]

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See how much force a reserve PC will provide on the next high wind day, it won't deploy a reserve (at least any day that you should be jumping).

What if you have a Skyhook?

[Ron 7]

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I can't think of an RSL with a Collins' Lanyard every causing anyone a problem, much less killing them. When you blame deaths on RSL's, please be specific that these were "old fashioned" RSL's.

How many rigs that have RSL's have the Collin's Lanyard?

And how many don't.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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And I can recall a KAP-10 fatality or two, but that's a bad reason to not use a cypres. The two sided Racer RSL's aren't like modern RSL's.

KAP-10 to CYPRES is not the same as an RSL.

The SKyhook is a modern RSL, like the CYPRES.

But you can't compare an old AAD to a modern AAD, nor should you compare an old RSL to a Skyhook....

However most RSL's are NOT skyhooks and should not be considered the same either.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Ron 7]

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I have never seen or heard of any instance where a properly installed RSL 'killed' anyone!

Ya know what kills me? We have done this SAME BS before.

Reference this post from me when you asked the SAME question in 2001.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=893993#893993

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Check Racers website for that one.


Heres another:
Date Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL?
1/30/1997 Taupo, New Zealand MAL,DMAL? 35 2500 ?/Y
Description: After cutting away from a malfunction, it appears one riser hung up, while the side with the RSL released, casuing the reserve to deploy between the remaining riser. This riser then seperated, and the main ending up choking off the reserve. The pair decended on the partially inflated main which was caught on the wholly uninflated reserve.
Lessons:Some of the above is speculation, but it's a good reminder to perform your three ring maintenance regularly. If you don't know what I'm referring to, you should talk to your local rigger. In a nutshell, disconnect your main, flex the webbing of the three ring, clean the yellow cable with a dry cloth, (for metal housings) lightly oil the cable, reconnect the main, perform a line check, and pack it.


How about this one?
6/22/1997 Umatilla, FL MAL? 42 7500 Y?/Y
Description: At the end of a normal tandem skydiver, the student pulled the ripcord at about 5500 feet. The left main riser broke, which in turn activated the reserve static line lanyard (RSL). The RSL immediately pulled the reserve ripcord cables while the right-hand main riser was still attached. The reserve pilot chute and free-bag cleared, but the reserve canopy entangled with the spinning main. The main was then cut away, but failed to clear the reserve. The student survived the landing, the JM did not. The Master 425 main was equipped Dacron with suspension lines. The type VII risers were manufactured in May 1996 and had the new heavy duty 3-rings. The rings were properly positioned during drogue fall, and appeared normal. The type VII webbing broke about 1" above the lower end; the type IV holding the small ring broke just below the grommet. Neither of the two rings from the left riser were recovered, nor was the cutaway handle or the reserve ripcord. All equipment was less than three years old and in good condition. Instructor and student total weight was about 380 pounds.
Lessons:Perhaps a defective riser?

Heres another
Date Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL?
7/12/2000 Elsinore, CA DMAL 27 Y/Y
Description: The Navy was at Elsinore training Seals; they had their own instructors and their own equipment. At the time of this report, no detailed analysis of the rig has yet been made. This report is based on preliminary examinations and eyewitness accounts. The student ( training under the Navy's equivalent of AFF) deployed his main normally at around 4500 feet. During the main deployment the RSL somehow deployed his reserve which then entangled in the main. Someone supposedly had seen that his main was square and apparently flyable while the reserve was completely fouled and entangled in his main lines. No one directly witnessed the incident while the student was between 4000 and 2500 feet. Somewhere during that interval the student apparently cutaway his main which then collapsed and remained entangled with his fouled reserve. It was believed that if he had not cutaway, he may have been able to land relatively safely on his main. The reserve was apparently NOT deployed by his CYPRES: the preliminary examination revealed a kink in the reserve ripcord where the RSL must have pulled against it while it was still under tension from the closing loop. As soon as the rig is released by the coroner more detailed examinations are going to happen by the DZO, the USPA, the rig manufacturer and the Navy. It is unknown at this time what pulled the RSL, it may have been improperly routed and was pulled on line stretch, or it may have been caught by a toggle. It is also unknown if this type of malfunction is particular to this type of rig or is an industry-wide concern. The Navy has stood down their training and grounded all of their equipment until more is known about the true cause of the incident.
Lessons:Dual canopy out malfunctions are nasty. Discuss appropriate procedures with a local instructor. Cutting away from an inflated main when the reserve fouled is not a recommended course of action.

One that can show the drawbacks of an RSL.
Date Location Category Age # Jumps AAD?/RSL?
9/22/2001 Picton, Australia DMAL 34 360 ?/Y
Description: After a camera jump, this jumper experienced spinning line twists on his Stilleto 135. He was unable to clear them and cutaway at perhaps 1800'. His reserve (an Airforce 120) opened (via RSL, though reserve handle was also pulled roughly simultaneously) slider-up with line twists, and he impacted in a spin still trying to kick out of the twists. The reserve was very highly loaded, at 1.7 lb/ft^2. Video review of the incident shows that the deceased may have been kicking the wrong direction to get the reserve to untwist, and was not observed to be pulling the risers apart to aid the untwisting.
Lessons:There is some reason to believe that pausing briefly after cutting away from a seriously spinning malfunction can aid in reserve deployment. However, pausing also eats up valuable altitude, which is also an increased risk. An RSL removes your choice in this matter, but does insure a rapid deployment after a low cutaway. Note that this forum doesn't post the incidents where someone cutaway low, and their RSL saves them.

Another one.
9/30/2001 Opelika, AL DMAL 48 308 Y/Y
Description: Due to a hard opening, this jumper broke one of the D lines on his canopy, a 230 Rascal. it went into a spin, so he cut it away. The rapid deployment of the reserve via the RSL resulted in his capturing the reserve pilot chute on his right arm. One report indicates the reserve lines also entangled with his neck. The reserve never cleared the freebag. He was found dead at the scene. A second report from someone involved with the investigation reports that the RSL had nothing to do with it; I await further details.
Lessons:RSL's are a mixed blessing. For novice jumpers, they provide insurance against failure to pull the reserve after a cutaway, a relatively frequent occurrence in the pre-CYPRES past. This incident may illustrate the downside of an RSL.

Properly installed and STILL KILLED PEOPLE.

Bill Booth says that if they had collins lanyards they might not have killed these folks....Maybe.

The Skyhook might have saved them, but we are not talking about skyhooks, we are talking about RSL's in general, and I don't think putting a Skyhook in the same class as a normal RSL is fair.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[billvon 2,405]

>I just learned about a two sided Racer RSL issue. However even that
>is still covered by general RSL safety issues.

Well, except that you have to disconnect the RSL before cutting away from a two-out. While it's recommended with any two-out, forgetting that step can kill you with a Racer. And with the advent of cypreses, two-outs are a lot more common.

>Being dragged by high wind after landing. Pop the RSL before cutting
>away or you may get dragged again.

The reserve won't inflate unless you've landed in a hurricane (and if you land in 50kt winds you have other problems.)

I agree with you that RSL's are a personal preference, but I fear that many people make their RSL decisions based on myths (like the "you'll get dragged" one or "your reserve will entangle with your main" one.) Link below.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=18

[Elisha 1]

I don't have an RSL on my rig (Talon container, Sabre2-150 loaded at 1.05, Micro-Raven reserve) that I bought from the DZO. I haven't opened lower than about 3500 yet, so I'm not to worried.

Feel free to tell me if I should be.

[Ron 7]

You have no reason to be "worried"

However it only takes one mistake to die. I had a good friend that could skydive circles around me bounce. He was really good in the air and had almost 1000 jumps...But he made a mistake and died. And RSL or an AAD would have saved him. But, pulling the reserve handle would also have saved him.

I didn't have an RSL or AAD from jump #13 to 700ish.

I still don't like RSL's (Other than the Skyhook...But its not like a regular RSL....Even then I have some doubts, but the benefit outweighs the risk IMO.)

But my opinion is that people should have an RSL till they have their first mal and pulled both handles.

Then they can make their own choices.

But NO ONE should think an RSL is perfectly safe.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Avion 0]

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>I just learned about a two sided Racer RSL issue. However even that
>is still covered by general RSL safety issues.

Well, except that you have to disconnect the RSL before cutting away from a two-out. While it's recommended with any two-out, forgetting that step can kill you with a Racer. And with the advent of cypreses, two-outs are a lot more common.

>Being dragged by high wind after landing. Pop the RSL before cutting
>away or you may get dragged again.

The reserve won't inflate unless you've landed in a hurricane (and if you land in 50kt winds you have other problems.)

I agree with you that RSL's are a personal preference, but I fear that many people make their RSL decisions based on myths (like the "you'll get dragged" one or "your reserve will entangle with your main" one.) Link below.

Myth, myth! May I have some humility with my err, please

Thanks for the correction, Bill. I'm amend my future comments to the likes of after landing and before cutting away to avoid being dragged, disconnect your RSL to avoid having to get an untimely reserve repack, and in the event that you've landed in exceptionally strong winds that may even prevent you from getting dragged by your reserve

[HydroGuy 0]

Did anyone else notice that this thread sat dead from December 3rd, 2003 until July 17th, 2005?

brettpobastard just jumped into a 2 year old thread...and got everybody fired up all over again.

Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary

[tso-d_chris 0]

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Did anyone else notice that this thread sat dead from December 3rd, 2003 until July 17th, 2005?

brettpobastard just jumped into a 2 year old thread...and got everybody fired up all over again.

Are people always saying to do a search before starting a new thread?

For Great Deals on Gear

[tsisson 0]

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>I just learned about a two sided Racer RSL issue. However even that
>is still covered by general RSL safety issues.

Well, except that you have to disconnect the RSL before cutting away from a two-out. While it's recommended with any two-out, forgetting that step can kill you with a Racer. And with the advent of cypreses, two-outs are a lot more common.

Amen to that...I have jumped a Racer for 10 years...and for me, the RSL on a Racer is not an option. I would jump an RSL on any other rig, but not the Racer for the simple reason listed above.