pa2themd 0 #1 July 8, 2004 Hi Guys, We are looking at starting a packing course at my dz, we want to hold it once a month as it is also now compulsory to have had "Instruction in Packing" before we get an A licence. I was just wondering if your courses, we standardised or if it was very much every DZ for themself. Also what do you teach, pro packing or flat pack or both. How long are the courses and who is authorised to give them. Also what do you charge for your courses. I know that what you doing /. charging varies from country to country but I am just trying to get a general feel for what is out there. Thanks and my apologies for the 20 questions. Blue skies Sheri "Most of us can read the writing on the wall; we just assume it's addressed to someone else!" Ivern Ball Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #2 July 8, 2004 For basic instruction, I only teach one method: the "roll" pack. It is very simple, doesn't take long to teach, and is nearly fool-proof. Once a person has their license, we allow them to use whatever method they choose, but reinforce to them that their goal should be to get the canopy in the bag in as safe and quick a manner as possible so that they can get back up into the air. Teaching PRO packing as a basic method does not make any sense to me. Also, anyone telling you that you "cannot" flat pack an elliptical canopy is dead wrong, so the argument that they "need" to know how to PRO pack as soon as possible is flawed. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #3 July 8, 2004 Perris teaches pro-packing. It was a rain day, so I asked the school if I could do my packing class instead. Paid my fee, and had a one on one class, and the encouragement from the instructor to come back any time I had a question... I think he regretted that, after hearing "JIMMY!!! I forgot AGAIN!!!! HELP PLEASE!!!" the tenth time or so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightjumps 1 #4 July 8, 2004 We offer the flat pack at the beginning of the month and the PRO-pack a couple of weeks later. We teach the flat pack because most of our student mains are F111 and not because they can't be pro-packed, but because it gives a more detailed understanding of the line groups and reason for line tension. Once they've got the basics down, it's easier on the student to migrate to the Pro pack. I (we) teach the pro pack a little differently in that we have the students split the line groups over each shoulder, spread everything out so the seam of the centerline is running straight down their crotch and then work from the "D" line groups up to the "A" line groups. We've found that they can "see" the orientation easier and faster than throwing all the lines over one shoulder and trying to work down into the myriad of lines. We charge $25.00/person for the first flat pack class and ask that they provide the beer and pizza for the second class (we are a Cessna DZ). As for the roll pack, we don't formally teach that, but do introduce them to it at the end of the propack class and usually demonstrate it once. Then if they want to learn to psycho pack as personal preference, it's more on an ad hoc basis. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyyhi 0 #5 July 8, 2004 Elsinore has a packing course, but since I had already learned how to pack I didn't take it. At the packing course I do know they teach you how to disconnect a canopy, they teach you about the line groups and show you flat packing and then finally teach you to pro-pack. I understand that when you are done you have a pretty thorough understanding of how it all works. It costs $40 for the class and is taught by the student rig packers or one of the AFFIs.________________________________________ Take risks not to escape life… but to prevent life from escaping. ~ A bumper sticker at the DZ FGF #6 Darcy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #6 July 8, 2004 we learn/teach Pro-Packing. the price is included in the AFF course P.S. go check your dz.com email...scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chrisky 0 #7 July 9, 2004 I learned to propack during my AFF course, and if any DZ charges for a separate packing course after you had AFF there it is a complete ripoff IMO. I can see why packing isn't taught to FJ students, but IMO the AFF course should cover everything needed to get someone to their A, including one packing method. Jumped my packjobs from AFF level 4. That was a small DZ, but when do you have so many AFF students that you desperately need that rig right away and so few instructors/riggers on duty as not to teach packing?The mind is like a parachute - it only works once it's open. From the edge you just see more. ... Not every Swooper hooks & not every Hooker swoops ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #8 July 9, 2004 at our DZ there is no formal packing classes... but as they are waiting to get onto a load (cessna DZ) they first watch one of us flat pack their mains, next jump they pack it themselves with us helping, and next time they are on the ground they pack it with just us watching. we ususally have students completely packing their own stuff by jump 6 or 7. there is no cost for learning to pack at our DZ. plus we have a huge sheet of packing instructions and tips, and we are gonna make a packing video sometime soon. when they switch over to propack, one of us experienced jumpers will show them, again no charge. MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #9 July 9, 2004 there is no cost for learning to pack at our DZ. *** Its great to hear that there is still some dz's that dont try to gouge the students of every nickel.... when I started there wasnt a "packing class"....it was a bit different, you picked up some beer and the dzo or instructor sat down and showed you how it was done. Its called giving back.....and seems to be quickly vanishing from our great sport.....I help beginning jumpers all the time for free, as long as its ok with the particular dz, (dont wanna shoot myself in the foot ya know) RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pa2themd 0 #10 July 9, 2004 Hi Guys, Firstly let me begin by saying thank you for all your input then let me give you some back ground about my DZ. We are currently the biggest dz in South Africa flying a Pilatus Porter. (By American Standards we are an average dz - I assume.) We have 4 - 5 Club Packers that are employed to pack all student equipment as well as any private rigs, but Student canopies come first. Because the dz is so busy, and we have club packers there was no dire need for students to learn to pack unless of course they wanted to pack student rigs for the club. Then they would seek instruction from the student rig packers, ask one of the elected instructors to administer the dz packing licence and either pass or fail it depending on how well they did. Pro packing your own rig can be done without a licence ...probably the same as the rest of you. Our AFF is very inexpensive compared to the rest of the world, you would be paying around $ 1000.00 for the entire course, including membership to the club, use of all facilities etc etc. Packing was always taught for free, the students normally bought the packers a beer or gave them R 50.00 or whatever. The problem we find with this is basically that everyone taught a different method and we wanted to standardise the course, offer proper instruction i.e most students only knew how to pack the parachute they knew nothing of the lines and how to connect a canopy etc The cost of the course would be minimal and cover basically the coaches / instructors time. blue skies Sheri **edited for spelling** "Most of us can read the writing on the wall; we just assume it's addressed to someone else!" Ivern Ball Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bosveld 0 #11 July 9, 2004 Hey Sheri, I think this is an excellent idea, I think all DZ's should offer this, or something simillar. At PSC the packing instruction is basically left to either myself or Naomi, and as you probably know we normally don't have time to instruct people, as we are either packing ourselves or jumping. We (Naomi and Myself) have tried to do something similar on sunday mornings but with little success. I think we should make it more formal, and worth while for the packing intructors. If there were people from our DZ interested in a packing course like this, and ours is not off the ground yet, can we refer them to you? Or will it be a on a member only basis? Ok bye now Jaco Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pa2themd 0 #12 July 9, 2004 Hey Jaco, Everyone would be welcome, I don't see why it would be a members only thing! Hope that you are keeping well! How is the jumping going? Hope to see you all at JSC soon for the mini meet we are holding on the 31st. The details are on our webpage www.jsc.co.za Blue skies Sheri "Most of us can read the writing on the wall; we just assume it's addressed to someone else!" Ivern Ball Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bosveld 0 #13 July 9, 2004 The Jumping is doing great, margate is the best thing that happened to me in a long time. learned a lot, as well as jumping a lot now. I just can't help it. Great news, I'll definitly refer some people to JSC next time somebody asks. An there is a couple of people at our DZ that I think needs to go on a packing course! Keep well sweetie and Blue Skies!! Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, will be true! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #14 July 9, 2004 QuoteGreat news, I'll definitly refer some people to JSC next time somebody asks. An there is a couple of people at our DZ that I think needs to go on a packing course! Keep well sweetie and Blue Skies!! Good thing to do, but beware of the words you use scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #15 July 9, 2004 I didn't mind paying for packing class. My instructor spent about six hours with me. He deserves to be compensated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #16 July 10, 2004 In reply to: it is also now compulsory to have had "Instruction in Packing" before we get an A licence. At last! I think that's a great idea, i had a look at the USPA A license card the other day and there is some really good stuff that American students are required to perform before they can get a licence. Good luck with it Shez! Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pa2themd 0 #17 July 12, 2004 He there hunni, I trust you made it to the US safelty ...come on make me jealous! Are you having fun...learn learn and learn some more then bring it back to South Africa. I would love to get some ideas as to what they are doing overseas that we can improve on here .. besides tecniques. We miss you at JSC!!! Blue skies to all the dz.commers you meet ok! Hugs Sheri "Most of us can read the writing on the wall; we just assume it's addressed to someone else!" Ivern Ball Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
